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Quote:FYI - for architecture, for some dumb reason, the rules aren't as strict (except in Belgium where my prof actually got an angry letter for posting an image of the Horta House, that he shot himself from the street!)
Some people just think they're so importtant that they actually think they even own what other people see... :?
We had an architect over here who sued the users of his building for hanging images on 'his' walls, and for adding guard rails to a very high footbridge. I blame the people who contracted him, they should have made better arrangements.
I think, if you don't intend to make any profit from an image, it's free to use. If it's in a book, other have paid for it, sure, but as long as you don't publish (section of) the book itself, I consider publishing images free advertising rather than copyright infringement.
There's a nice discussion about publishing one's work on the internet over at Baen.com...
In this case, images were given to someone else with the stipulation that they were not free for publication. That's fair enough. We don't publish them, even though the scientist in us much rather would have done so.
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Quote:What are the reasons for this, amy apologies ,peevish attitude ?
I can think of but one reason (beside pettyness) They're scared we label it as a fake!
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Quote:Conal:23ea2e1f Wrote:What are the reasons for this, amy apologies ,peevish attitude ?
I can think of but one reason (beside pettyness) They're scared we label it as a fake!
:lol:
Isn't that the truth!!
There are some obvious fakes in the Met and the Getty is full of frauds!
Oh well.
Theodoros of Smyrna (Byzantine name)
aka Travis Lee Clark (21st C. American name)
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Oh! and the Toledo helmet .... oh hell, forget it. :? <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_confused.gif" alt=":?" title="Confused" />:?
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Quote:Some people just think they're so importtant that they actually think they even own what other people see...
Absolutely. In France and Belgium, contemporary artists and architects retain rights over all views of their work -- even if you took the picture from the public street -- until 75 years AFTER their deaths, At which time their estates can RENEW!! It's crazy!! There's also exemptions for museums and "national treasures" so even if it's owned by a private person, and the artist has been dead for 1000 years, and you have permission from the current owner, the state can still impose restrictions. It's just a shake-down.
Quote:We had an architect over here who sued the users of his building for hanging images on 'his' walls, and for adding guard rails to a very high footbridge. I blame the people who contracted him, they should have made better arrangements.
:lol: F.L. Wright would show up while his clients were on vacation - he had keys to all of "his" houses as he would call them - and rearrange the furniture "correctly". If you want the big name, you got to put up with the big ego, I guess.
Quote:I think, if you don't intend to make any profit from an image, it's free to use. If it's in a book, other have paid for it, sure, but as long as you don't publish (section of) the book itself, I consider publishing images free advertising rather than copyright infringement.
I agree! There should also be a sunset clause on a lot of these rights. I mean, the Romans belong to everybody and there hasn't been anybody that could make claim to the title "Roman" since 1453. This just kills scholarship and study.
Well that's enough off topic on copyrights, but we should probably make it a RAT objective to support "right to publish" legislation across the board. I know a lot of freedom to information legislation is languishing in the American congress.[/quote]
Theodoros of Smyrna (Byzantine name)
aka Travis Lee Clark (21st C. American name)
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Oh! and the Toledo helmet .... oh hell, forget it. :? <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_confused.gif" alt=":?" title="Confused" />:?
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I think Robert's got the right clue!
![[Image: 120px-Septimani_seniores_shield_pattern.svg.png]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e2/Septimani_seniores_shield_pattern.svg/120px-Septimani_seniores_shield_pattern.svg.png) ![[Image: Estalada.gif]](http://webs.racocatala.cat/esteladaanimada/Estalada.gif)
Ivan Perelló
[size=150:iu1l6t4o]Credo in Spatham, Corvus sum bellorum[/size]
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Quote:I think Robert's got the right clue!
That helmet does look very, very well preserved indeed...
For the price asked, I'd expect a full metal analysis..
For 20 000 dollars, I'll definitely want more, much more than a mere "German Private Collection, acquired in the early 1970s".
A bit short..
Pascal Sabas
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Perhaps too well preserved for Europe...
When I took in my hands the Egyptian iron Spangenhelm at Leiden and put it upside-down to see the lining, to my concern the cheek-pieces suddenly opened sidewards: The hinges are still totally operative!  hock:
Aitor
It\'s all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever.
Rolf Steiner
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Gentlement,
here the measures for your files:
DIMENSIONS:
The present weight of the helmet is 1317 grams (2.9 pounds).
The length front to back incl neck guard is 13 inches (33 cm).
The width of bowl (without neck guard) front to back is 11 inches (27.9
cm) and left to right is 7 inches (17.8 cm).
The height incl cheek pieces is 11 inches (27.9 cm).
And the height of bowl excl cheek pieces (but with the nose guard in the
front) is 8 inches (20.3 cm).
strength of iron plate is between 1 and 1.8 mm
And it sold last week for some 26000 USD incl. fees and taxes as I have been told.
A.
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Quote:Look at this interesting late Roman iron helmet:
[url:237f92zv]http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/search/LOTDETAIL.ASP?sid=&intObjectID=4617487[/url]
Raeticus
That's quite an amazing piece. It seems to be intact.
I wonder what else is hidden away in private collections...
Regards,
Hisham
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For those who have commented about wishing they had the money to buy this helmet, a friend of mine bought another, yet unpublished one at an incredibly cheap price at the Stuttgart coin show. The dealer dealt in Roman things, but had no idea it was Roman. In is in the USA now, and I hope to get photos soon.
"Insider" info strongly suggests the helmet discussed now is a very recent find from the balkans, as are so many newly offered helmets. The "been in private collection since the 1970's" ploy is often used in these circumstances to deflect the obvious fact that it is modern "loot" taken from archaological sites that can no longer be protected due to the chaos in that region.
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Hi Dan,
That was me about the money, but never serious of course! 
What incredible news about that Stuttgart fair. Should you get some pictures, could you also ask for the measurements?
About loot from the Balkans, it seems to be unstoppable now. Too bad that institutes like eBay and Christie's are proving so willing to sell this stuff..
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Quote:About loot from the Balkans, it seems to be unstoppable now. Too bad that institutes like eBay and Christie's are proving so willing to sell this stuff..
Tt's all about money...nobody except archaeologists and historian sorts and people like us, care much about ancient artifacts or what happens to them.
Some of these guys would dig up their grandmother's body, if they thought it would make thousands from her gold jewellry..
As for the business with the photos, I can understand copyright on photos of actors or from films and published articles but ancient artifacts surely belong to the owner....who lost them or they were buried with.
What do others gain by having a photo of an ancient helmet....except pleasure. Of course, this may be a case of the new owner wanting commission on all copies made, and photographs circulating mean that this will be very difficult to achieve.
Money, money, money - its a rich mans world
regards
Arthes
Cristina
The Hoplite Association
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The enemy is less likely to get wind of an advance of cavalry, if the orders for march were passed from mouth to mouth rather than announced by voice of herald, or public notice. Xenophon
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Quote:What do others gain by having a photo of an ancient helmet....except pleasure.
If it's unpublished: the academic credit of being the one to publish it.
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Hi Constaine here I was wondering :roll: any chance of this helm being made by that fine group of men from India, the company Mr Dan Petersen works with all the time, Also is there any chances of any new Roman helms Late or early being made by them as they are discovered or made available to the public. This helm is neat  wink:
He who desires peace ,let him prepare for war. He who wants victory, let him train soldiers diligently. No one dares challenge or harm one who he realises will win if he fights. Vegetius, Epitome 3, 1st Century Legionary Thomas Razem
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Yes, I've read rumours of modern forgeries being buried for several months in sewage to artificially age them thanks to the extra oxidization they recieve in such conditions. These are then presented to collectors and auction houses as the genuine articles. The forgers make big bucks and the unwary buyers get forgeries. From the point of view of fairness and legality the consumer is ripped off with a cheap forgery and from the point of view of accademic study it can be seriously and agrivatingly misleading.
This helmet could be a valuable missing link between imperial series helmets and ridge helmets but then again it could be a red herring which could lead to serious misunderstanding of a subject we already know too little about.
Crispvs :?
Who is called \'\'Paul\'\' by no-one other than his wife, parents and brothers. :!: <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_exclaim.gif" alt=":!:" title="Exclamation" />:!:
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