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Could this be a 'missing link' between those all-enclosing 3rd century cavalry helms and the bare simplicity of the ridge helmet used from Diocletian onwards?
The switch and lack of any evolution has always been (to my mind anyway) incredibly and unsually dramatic.
~ Paul Elliott
The Last Legionary
This book details the lives of Late Roman legionaries garrisoned in Britain in 400AD. It covers everything from battle to rations, camp duties to clothing.
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Quote:In this case, like in the Deir el Medina helmet, the hinges are external, so, no gap, no bands.
The Deir el Medina helmet has no border holes around the edges of cheeks and neck-guard too, but it possesses them along the lower border of basal ring.
The form of the 'eyebrows' is very interesting too. Fourth century 'eyebrows' don't have usually that horizontal extension at their ends, but those of the Deir el Medina helmet have it.
I would bet that the neck-guard is joined to the bowl by means of a hinge too.
I think so too. The neckguard makes me think of the Deir el Medinah, too.
Quote:Probably, late Third century, like Cesar has pointed out.
I second that. the top is new, but all the attached pieces look like earlier helmets.
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Quote:Vortigern Studies:31jqqo1b Wrote:(can someone lend me $14.950?)
No. Aww..  Why not? If all RAT members pitch in? 
Quote:We could pretend they were interested in buying it for Robert.
Why pretend? If everybody lends me some cash, well...
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Quote:If everybody lends me some cash
So what rates are we talking here? 15? 25%? Make it a good investment.
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Quote:Could this be a 'missing link' between those all-enclosing 3rd century cavalry helms and the bare simplicity of the ridge helmet used from Diocletian onwards?
The switch and lack of any evolution has always been (to my mind anyway) incredibly and unsually dramatic.
A missing link, sure, I tend to think so too, for want of a secure dating.
But 'incredible dramatic', not nessecarily so. I mean, we hardly have helmets from the Eastern provinces during this period.
I mean, apart from an early spangenhelm (Leiden Museum) and the Deir el Medineh helmet (also a spangenhelm), both from Egypt, I know of no Late Roman helmet from the East.
And since we can be fairly sure that the origin of the ridge helmets goes back to Sassanid helmets, I think we may assume that any development would have first taken place in the Eastern provinces. For some reason, none has been found there (yet, I hope).
But helmets such as this one from Christie's could signify that 'missing' evolution, which may have been far less 'dramatic' than the 'sudden' occurrance of the ridge helmets in the West has made us think so far.
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Quote:Quote:If everybody lends me some cash
So what rates are we talking here? 15? 25%? Make it a good investment.
Call it charity, shall we?
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I have received a reply from Christie's London, promising me they would try and get get me some additional images. Fingers crossed I guess.
I told them I was acting for a buyer in Holland who wished to remain anonymous. Robert have you considered remortgaging your house? I did, but the better half wasn't keen.
Andrew
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Quote:I told them I was acting for a buyer in Holland who wished to remain anonymous. Robert have you considered remortgaging your house? I did, but the better half wasn't keen.
Ooops.... :oops:
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Egad!
The thing is neat isn't it.
What you need is an archaeologist to inquire for pictures. I don't think they would turn their nose up at a genuine scholar. Somebody get Bishop on the horn! He could do it.
I wonder what would happen if he called Christie's. When is the auction?
As far as money, I'll kick in $5.50 US dollars. That's all that's left of my fellowship anyway.
Theodoros of Smyrna (Byzantine name)
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Oh! and the Toledo helmet .... oh hell, forget it. :? <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_confused.gif" alt=":?" title="Confused" />:?
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TARBICvS/Jim Bowers
A A A DESEDO DESEDO!
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I have been promised some pictures on Monday. It is "Thanks-Giving" in the US and their New York office is closed till Monday apparently.
We shall have to wait...
Andrew
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I have piccies; just trying to get permission to post them.
Mike Bishop
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Great!
Could you tell us in advance the way the neck-guard is attached to the bowl? 8)
Aitor
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In the web of the auction puts:
"the neck-guard with an everted hemispherical flange hinged to the back of the brow band"
There puts too that the cheek-pieces "flanged toward the neck and hinged to the brow band"
So, in advance of Bishop's photos, we can think the method is the same.
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Hi Constaine here WOW!  hock: Thats one well preserved helm. Does anyone know were it came from?Was it just recently discoverd or did it spend years in a basement in a museum or was it just dug up? Are there any details ?.This is one great looking helm, I would not mind a copy for myself. A pity about the price, but heres 50 dollars on a group effort Cheers Constaine
He who desires peace ,let him prepare for war. He who wants victory, let him train soldiers diligently. No one dares challenge or harm one who he realises will win if he fights. Vegetius, Epitome 3, 1st Century Legionary Thomas Razem
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