Very New light on roman tents construction

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

And what if the roofs were the only leather part, and the rest, like the curtains were some sort of linen ? saves a lot of the weight in transport !

KM

[Magnus]

It would have to be some type of material that was weather-proof....did the romans have canvas?

[Forty-One]

Aren't these guy-ropes of some kind?



This is a plaster cast from Trajan's Column in the Museo della Civiltà Romana in Rome.

[john roberts]

It would have to be some type of material that was weather-proof....did the romans have canvas?

What did they make sails out of? If not leather, then some sort of canvas was called for.

[M. Demetrius]

Canvas refers to the thickness of the cloth (or the ply number of the yarn) and the tightness of the weave. In other words, large thread, tight weave makes canvas when using a plant fiber. Denim is a cousin to canvas. Denim is twill, canvas is usually just tabby weave.

Linen could be made into canvas as easily as cotton is.

[Gaius Decius Aquilius]

I read some place or another that sells goats hair cloth, that modern bedouin tents are made from goat hair. Goat hair has the quality of when wet, swelling to keep out water and when dry allows for ventilation. Some apostile's father made tents for the Roman army and by coincidence was from a goat producing area. I can see the front and backs of Roman tents being made from goat's hair for this reason. Not offered as any proof, just a thought.

Ralph

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

I think it could be feesible, because the way the front curtains drape is comparable to anything you see but leather. I know about the artistic license discussion but do think it is an interesting line of thought. If only the roof was made of leather, there would be less weight issues.

M.VIB.M.

[garrelt]

In the picture posted by Forty-one it almost looks like that the roof is made of heavy material (leather) and the walls of lighter material (fabric), the squares in the walls could be the folds of the light material being folded up for transport and storing.

[M. Demetrius]

They could be folds if the material is cloth, but that doesn't seem a likely artistic inclusion. If the walls are made from cloth, there would be no reason to sew them up into panels, however. Less seams equals better waterproofing, and less labor. If leather, the seams and panels would be from using goat or calf skins, which are not large enough to make a whole wall without many seams.

It's hard to tell some things from sculpture, especially when the sculptor probably wasn't an archeologist-friendly artist.

[Caballo]

This may be relevant?

"And thou shalt make curtains of goats' hair to be a covering upon the tabernacle: eleven curtains shalt thou make." Exodus 26:7

[Marcus Ginintonicus]

I certainly don't want to claim to be in the same league as the kind of expertise here, but I did want to throw out: you can have perfectly good guy ropes on the inside of a tent with rectangular walls. You run 'em diagonally. Works fine, doesn't show from the outside.

[Crispvs]

Interesting thought, but in my experience of tents, you need space on the inside to move about in and that means that the inside of the tent should be as free of obstruction as possible. I would have thought that guy ropes on the inside would get in the way somewhat. The purpose of a tent, after all, is not to be looked at but to be slept under, which requires being able to get into the tent.

Crispvs

[Gaius Opius Fugi]

I think he might mean diagonally ALONG the walls, as opposed to criss-crossing through the central area. Could be wrong though, but when I read his proposal of guy ropes inside the tent, that's what came to my mind.

-Adam C.

[Crispvs]

I am far from convinced that guy ropes on the inside of a tent would be of much value. Certainly they could be set up in a neat pattern in either of the ways suggested, but I doubt that they would be doing anything to hold the tent up in those positions, which is, after all, what guy ropes are mainly intended to do.
I have slept in tents of many types over the last thirty years. My experience is that tent material, especially heavier weight material such as canvas or (especially) goatskin, is inclined to naturally pull inwards thanks to the downward force of gravity. I would think that guy ropes on the inside would compound this problem, as they would pull from the inside (ie: inwards), whereas guy ropes on the outside counteract the problem of the fabric pulling inwards by restraining the fabric. This is the case even in tents with frames (apart from the type of modern tent which features flexible elasticated poles).

If you can show me evidence that internal guy ropes would be in any way effective I would be very pleased to hear it.

Changing subject somewhat, I noticed that in the last picture posted up on the first page of the thread, the two smaller tents with very prominent rings for guy ropes, the tents almost look like tents sitting on top of fabric walls. The upper parts strongly resemble the tent panels from Vindolanda, Newstead and other places, even having the single row of vertical panel running along below the eves to form the wall, but it looks as if the sculptor has tried to represent something he has seen a drawing of but has not understood how the tent opens and so has invented a piece underneath which can be pulled aside to allow entry. The rings are presented as if they are running around below the roof but if we are to trust the archaeological evidence they probably actually ran along the bottom of the tent (for tent pegs?) in the drawing the sculptor saw and now seem to run around the roof simply because of the spurious artistic addition below. After all, if you take away the piece below the rings you are left with almost exactly what has survived in the archaeological record and which most of us already know has no need to be any higher.
It is true that guy ropes are apparently missing from a number of the representations on the column, but then, how many people really believe that the frieze on the column is the result of empirical observation rather than a number of sculptors depicting things they had never seen themselves from a set of relatively accurate drawings sketched by someone who did know what they were depicting but did not stick around long enough to point out the mistakes the sculptors were making. In any case, it was designed to tell a story. A tent shown without guy ropes still looks like a tent to most of the people in the street below (or in either of the libraries which originally flanked the column).

Crispvs

[Caballo]

A further possibility to solve the lack of a central pole in the ridge tents as spotted by Cacaius- see the beginning of this thread.

Two crossed poles- simple and effective. The top ends could be trimmed for neatness.


To quote the website (Davis Tent and Awning http://davistent.com/html/nopolesetup.html) "You can set up your tent without our pole or frame kit. Knock down a straight tree and run it through the ridge pole sleeves (stock on all our tents). Support it on both ends with the "A Frame" as pictured. Or you can tie one end into a tree. This is a very good way to set a tent up when done correctly it is extremely durable. Also saves on weight if you are packing in."

This solution would fit all the depictions in Roman art shown earlier, with the diagonal poles hidden by the draping (and being quite a useful means of folding them back). To test this, mentally draw a pole from the apex to the corner- works every time....

Of course, if this is right, 90% of Roman reenactor tents may have to be updated....