Please Tell Me This is a April Fools Joke?

[Tarbicus]

But what's bombing got to do with the British classroom history lesson?

[Memmia]

Those who do not learn from history are compelled to repeat it....


I hate to say it, but the UK is finished, it is sinking into the sea, and it's not due to the hot air from global warming, it's the hot air from the PC brigade and whiny minorities.

Thing is, it'll just give the BNP a record number of votes this time around.

I wish it was an April Fool's joke, but it seems you have no rights if you are a non Muslim in the UK now. Even your history is censored.

[Tarbicus]

I think it's more to do with the government stupidly trying to please everyone in one of their grand social experiments, and not putting their foot down in the case of religion interfering with state education. It's not just muslim interference, but goes across the board with faith schools, all government funded and leading to a ghettoised education system, even though 64% of the UK public think faith schools are wrong and sectarian.

To put some perspective on it, there are currently around 7,000 faith schools in England, 600 secondary and 6,400 primary. The vast majority (6,955) are Christian, with 36 Jewish, five Muslim and two Sikh.

Personally, I think none should exist.

[Arthes]

Greetings,
i'm a non racist person, but a very angry one when it comes to all this pussy footing for fear of upsetting those, whose own countrymen would want to imprison you for upsetting them.
If they want to live in our countries, they should abide by our rules and not take advantage of our compassion and leniency.
At the end of the day, our own people are going without, such as the elderly and the sick, and jobs and homes are becoming harder to find because our governments are giving aid to others, who sometimes do not appreciate our help.
(Probably against the RAT rules.... :wink: )
I suppose Alexander burning Persepolis will be banned from the history books next and Darius will have won at Gaugamela..... :roll:
regards
Arthes

[Jona Lendering]

Was it Herodotos? I thought I learned it was Pieter Geyl? And I think he said "Can be seen as ...".

Indeed, it's Pieter Geyl, although I think that Herodotus might have said it too, that "history is an argument without end". After all, he carefully juxtaposes different opinions.

When I was teaching Dutch culture for Foreigners (to help them find their way over here)

Then again, those courses (and this is no comment on Jona's teaching!) are in general notoriously bad, awful and worthless.

Well, I've had some recent complaints because I'm too busy with running the school... :oops:

This course I've mentioned above was not the usual "inburgeringstraject" (some sort of first-stage introduction), but some sort of bridge between "know some basic Dutch" and full-blown university teaching. In fact it was a pretty serious course that should compare to a normal VWO level (pre-university teaching).

I must immediately add that (a) if they started to debate, that was more important, because fluency in Dutch was more important; and (b) that I have only once had an experience that might be vaguely hostile, when someone said "why did you Dutch allow them, the Jews, to do X" - to which someone replied "I think the Dutch do not make a distinction between 'us Dutch' and 'them Jews'". That's indeed the politically correct reply, but I think that many Dutch people might make the same remark about "we Dutch" and "them Jews". I do not take this incident very seriously - my personal experience with my students was very, very positive and one of them has become one of my best friends.

No claiming to it Jasper, by definition I am..........just irritates me to death that certain groups are catered to.

(a) According to my rabbi, there are several definitions, the ancient Pharisaic one (when your mother is Jewish) being just one of them, although a very popular one. The Neurenberg Race Laws are a very bad other example (but still they were a reality); another one is slowly gaining ground in Europe, that you have relatives who suffered in 1933-1945 (which explains the hostility that Israelis settling in Holland sometimes encounter - I do not know how common this is). What I am trying to say is: nobody -not even the most wise rabbi- can define who you are.

(b) What means "to cater to"? (It's not in my dictionary.)

[Marius_Ursus]

And on that terse note, welcome back Tom. :wink:

LOL

Thanks, Jasper.

Seriously, I'm sick to death of it all. It seems every bloody group in the world wants special consideration without offering any special consideration of their own.

[Tarbicus]

You know, at the end of the day it's the school governors who are backing down here, and probably getting little or no support from the Education authorities. It's the parents, politicians and bureaucrats that are the real problem.

Here's a piece of a sister article from the same newspaper:

But the introduction of evening and weekend detentions was condemned as 'ill-conceived' and likely to hit wide parental opposition.

Chris Keates, general secretary of the NASUWT, said: "We believe this could add to discipline problems, bringing schools into more conflict with parents and pupils."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/a ... ge_id=1770

When I was a schoolboy, detention meant detention and my folks had no say in it. In fact, I'd have been in deep do-do at home if I was detained. Ergo, detention was avoided at all costs.

The problem is not just muslim parents, but parents as a whole.

Remember the school that laudably banned junk foods recently? What happened: news reporters interviewing thicko mums at the school railings giving their kids burgers and fish and chips in protest! "But he won't eat anything!"

Wise up! He's not gonna starve himself to death.

[Robert Vermaat]

Evening and weekend detentions? Try introducing thát to schools in the Netherlands... At least, I've never heard of it - parent would riot.

[hoplite14gr]

True Hisrory IS always UGLY. Every group has skeleton in its closets:!:
It teaches us that we learn nothing from it :!:

Frederik the Great is reputed to have said: "The one who tries to please everyone in the end stays without friends."

Agree with Jim about modern parents-some of them make an effort to over-spoil their brats.

Kind regards

[mcbishop]

To put some perspective on it, there are currently around 7,000 faith schools in England, 600 secondary and 6,400 primary. The vast majority (6,955) are Christian, with 36 Jewish, five Muslim and two Sikh.

Personally, I think none should exist.

To put even more perspective on it, it's a Daily Mail article, folks! They specialise in generalising from the particular and obsess about matters 'PC' and the threat to a mythical middle-class way of life. You probably need to be British to appreciate just how run-of-the-mill such fare is to them (my mother takes the rag so I am not exactly speaking from a position of ignorance here). Has anybody actually read the report upon which this article is supposedly founded? Why is there no link to it on the DM page?

Don't forget that Lord Rothermere (then owner of the DM) was a leading proponent of appeasement towards Hitler (but also note that his niece, Christabel Bielenberg, was friends with Adam von Trott zu Solz and on the fringes of the German anti-Nazi movement); one of those little details, like the fondness of certain parts of the British establishment for Adolf and his jack-booted chums which has faded with time (although the Mitfords and Lloyd George get mentioned occasionally in a sort of 'oops, how unfortunate' sort of way).

A sense of proportion is needed here: when you see this 'story' being taken seriously by real newspapers and other media, then you should start worrying. But does anybody seriously think that, in a time when the internet is ubiquitous, the holocaust can be hushed up to appease a few of its deniers? If this is serious journalism, then I'm an immigrant... come to think of it, I am an immigrant, being native English now living in Scotland (and yes, we briefly received racial abuse when we moved up here).

Mike Bishop

[M.H. White]

I hate "political correctness" with a fiery passion that consumes the soul. I also dislike the fact that the minorities have so much influence on the action taken by the majority.

[Magnus]

But does anybody seriously think that, in a time when the internet is ubiquitous, the holocaust can be hushed up to appease a few of its deniers?

Mike Bishop

I certainly do Mike. Because this is how the ball gets rolling in the first place. Minority group A wants to have "X" even though if flies in the face of the country's rules where they are currently living. The gov't, wanting to be popular with the minorities (god knows why, except for the votes), grants them that. Then Minority group B wants "Y", and they complain until they get it. Then, Minority group A sees that B got "Y", so they in turn insist on getting "C", until the bar keeps getting raised and raised and raised.

The direct result of this is that majority gets ticked off for all the right reasons, but essentially can't do ANYTHING about it without being labelled a racist, which is pure BS.

As others have said, this needs to be dealt with appropriately, and yeah, I like Jim's points about it starting at home.

[Tarbicus]

Mike's right - the Daily Mail is a right wing bag of pap. I actually feel like I overreacted now, which is the usual intent of such a piece of loathsome crap. My mother also buys it, but mostly for the free offers.

The only slippery slope to do with that story is more paranoia and knee-jerking than this country needs.

Can someone also give me their simple, one sentence, lucid, non-ranting, definition of 'politically correct', because it crops up at least once or twice a week here on RAT, ironically from a vocal minority :wink:

But I do despise faith schooling.

And I can't believe the Dutch never had detention. It obviously explains those slack morals.............

[Theodosius the Great]

You know, I felt the same righteous indignation about the proposed omission of the Crusades and Holocaust - both of which I believe had little to do with religion - from history books / classes. But upon reflection I think it's probably a good thing for a very different reason. Think about it - would you want your kids to get Ridley Scott's version of the Crusades (i.e. cultured, tolerant, peaceful Muslims against warlike, dirty, ignorant Christians - heh, where's all the 'gray' that progressives keep talking about) ? Or the revisionists' version of the Holocaust (i.e. a diminished account, or non-existent account of it) ?

No information is better than disinformation, Imo. I'm not advocating ignorance, rather I think it'd be best to learn about these events from sources other than secular, government-run schools which are most vulnerable to bending to the whims of fringe pressure groups . My solution - just pick up a history book from the 1950s or earlier to get a straighter account of the Holocaust and the Crusades. And disregard everything being taught in the schools, even the true parts. A half-lie is the worst kind of lie.

~Theo

[mcbishop]

Can someone also give me their simple, one sentence, lucid, non-ranting, definition of 'politically correct', because it crops up at least once or twice a week here on RAT, ironically from a vocal minority :wink:

There is quite a wry entry on the Wikipedia but I must admit I laughed out loud at the 'The neutrality of this article is disputed' banner. Irony? Wozzat, then?

Mike Bishop