04-02-2007, 01:07 PM
04-02-2007, 01:16 PM
It is a joke Paul. It's a joke because that's they society we live in today, that these PC morons cater to the whiny minorities in western society.
04-02-2007, 01:22 PM
I can positively state that is is a joke! Of course I would be lying, mind you.
As magnus said, sadly it is probably true!
As magnus said, sadly it is probably true!
04-02-2007, 01:55 PM
In Holland, it's true. When I was teaching Dutch culture for Foreigners (to help them find their way over here) at the Amsterdam Free University, I was supposed to leave the Holocaust and Near-Eastern history out of the curriculum. One former teacher had met students quoting the Protocols of the Elders of Sion - which is indeed an unpleasant experience, but not an excuse.
Worse, last year, the University of Utrecht tried to forbid a famous professor, Piet van der Horst, to tell that antisemitism had already started to become islamicized before WW II (i.e., the common opinion that antisemitism rose as a response to the occupation of the West Bank is untrue). At first, they said that the intended lecture was not sufficiently scientific; later, they said that they could not make sure that Van der Horst was safe.
On the fourteenth of March, a couple of weeks ago, the University of Leeds did the same. A German scholar named Matthias Küntzel (Vienna, Yale, Hamburg) was ordered not to speak about the same subject(first page). You can read his story here.
Worse, last year, the University of Utrecht tried to forbid a famous professor, Piet van der Horst, to tell that antisemitism had already started to become islamicized before WW II (i.e., the common opinion that antisemitism rose as a response to the occupation of the West Bank is untrue). At first, they said that the intended lecture was not sufficiently scientific; later, they said that they could not make sure that Van der Horst was safe.
On the fourteenth of March, a couple of weeks ago, the University of Leeds did the same. A German scholar named Matthias Küntzel (Vienna, Yale, Hamburg) was ordered not to speak about the same subject(first page). You can read his story here.
04-02-2007, 01:57 PM
That's like refusing to teach Julius Caesar's conquest of Gaul, because it might offend someone in France, or -- [pick another similar event]
You get the idea. History just IS. Some things are nice and beneficient, some things are ugly and horrible. But facts are just facts, truth is just truth. Neither care very much about opinions. When presenting truth/facts, neither should we. If it's history, and I report it, it's not ME someone should be angry about...it's perhaps ok to be uneasy or unhappy with some event in the past (and the Lord knows there are plenty of those that cause negative feelings) but presenting a time line should not be taken offensively.
What our ancestors did or did not do is not something we should be called to answer for.
You get the idea. History just IS. Some things are nice and beneficient, some things are ugly and horrible. But facts are just facts, truth is just truth. Neither care very much about opinions. When presenting truth/facts, neither should we. If it's history, and I report it, it's not ME someone should be angry about...it's perhaps ok to be uneasy or unhappy with some event in the past (and the Lord knows there are plenty of those that cause negative feelings) but presenting a time line should not be taken offensively.
What our ancestors did or did not do is not something we should be called to answer for.
04-02-2007, 01:59 PM
Real. It's dated today. This is what happens when the state promotes faith-based schooling. It's not 'political correctness' but 'religious correctness'.
04-02-2007, 02:05 PM
:? So its ok to offend the Jews because we wont blow up anything.
04-02-2007, 02:11 PM
Don't understand Paul?
04-02-2007, 02:34 PM
Paul is claiming he's Jewish, Jim.
Quote:When I was teaching Dutch culture for Foreigners (to help them find their way over here)Then again, those courses (and this is no comment on Jona's teaching!) are in general notoriously bad, awful and worthless. And I will leave it at that, because something very political might otherwise slip across my keyboard.
04-02-2007, 02:37 PM
Quote:History just IS. Some things are nice and beneficient, some things are ugly and horrible. But facts are just facts, truth is just truth. Neither care very much about opinions.
Ah. No.
I'm a historian, and I know for a fact that history has nothing to do with facts, but only with opinions of what actually happened...
It was Herodotus who rightly said that History was in fact 'discussion without end'...
04-02-2007, 02:45 PM
Was it Herodotos? I thought I learned it was Pieter Geyl? And I think he said "Can be seen as ...". But if you mean to say that every historian (and thus the history he writes) is profoundly influenced by the time and place he writes in, I have to agree, of course.
04-02-2007, 03:10 PM
Regardless of anything, major events are being pulled from the classroom because it might offend parents' feelings? Ignorance breeds intolerance and more ignorance, etc, etc.
Let the parents take the history to court.
Let the parents take the history to court.
04-02-2007, 04:33 PM
I find it disgusting.
04-02-2007, 04:33 PM
And on that terse note, welcome back Tom. :wink:
04-02-2007, 04:48 PM
Quote:Paul is claiming he's Jewish, Jim.
Quote:When I was teaching Dutch culture for Foreigners (to help them find their way over here)Then again, those courses (and this is no comment on Jona's teaching!) are in general notoriously bad, awful and worthless. And I will leave it at that, because something very political might otherwise slip across my keyboard.
No claiming to it Jasper, by definition I am..........just irritates me to death that certain groups are catered to. Anyway I got my answer.