Proposed Centurion Pteryges

[caiusbeerquitius]

However, both the Adamklissi and T's Column show regular rank and file legionarys and auxilliarys in pteryges (looks like single row as well). Can you imagine the cost of equipping serveral thousand soldiers at least in high cost linen pteryges?

Magnus, this is nothing compared to the cost of equipping several thousand soldiers with metal armour. And linen was not that expensive. Wer´e not talking about super-quality super fine linen here.
Your pic: as far as the upper / shorter row of rectangular pterges is concerned: there is something below it, namely the lower / longer row of rectangular pterges. For the lower row itself: could be or couldn´t be that they were next to each other / overlapping. Also, if you look carefully you will see that the longer ones are right in the middle between the shorter ones, which gives a nice double-layer at least for the upper row. If I were wearing this, i would be much happer with it, than with one without double layer, especially in that region of my body.

[Tarbicus]

they weren't used for defense, but rather as a traditional sign of rank or a soldier, depeding on the number of pteryges and rows.

If they were made of linen, and given the resulting thickness, then the pteryges would have the same defensive qualities as a linothorax. By default, it would be armour in itself.

[Magnus]

No no...Adrian I meant a row in behind each other...I know there's 2 sets.

Ok, so here's what I am looking at then, the MK I, or the MK II:



If I go the MK II route, am I correct in assuming the row underneath doesn't have braid/fringe?

If I go the MK I route, will one thick pteryge for the long ones be ok, instead of one over top the other?

[caiusbeerquitius]

Exactly. (To what Tarbicus said)

[Magnus]

Which one Christian...MK I or MK II?

[Magnus]

Exactly. (To what Tarbicus said)

yeah, but you guys aren't saying anything about cost...is this cost effective to do for every legionary and auxiliary?

[caiusbeerquitius]

MK I would be it, but not on top of each other, rather so that the middle of the top one covers the place where two lower ones meet. That would be perfect.

[caiusbeerquitius]

I jus edited my post above towards cost while you wrote the next one...
Again then: compared to the cost of metal armour this was neglectable. Look how much money the soldiers had anyway compared to the averge of the population. Really neglectable IMO.

[Tarbicus]

Exactly. (To what Tarbicus said)

yeah, but you guys aren't saying anything about cost...is this cost effective to do for every legionary and auxiliary?

But it must be just as cost effective as equipping them with armour and weapons. If multiple linen layers think of the cost effectiveness in not having to replace as many soldiers through easily avoidable injury and casualties. There's a flip side to pinching pennies which can cost you far more in the long term, including costing you a whole campaign.

[Magnus]

This is very true. I actually watched a show last night on the Military channel called "Weaponology" and it went through the evolution of body armour from Roman to the new stuff they're using in Iraq, and that was one of the points they mentioned Jim.

Ok, so MK I it is, with the overlap as Christian mentioned.

I'll proabably be starting work on them very soon, so I'll keep you guys posted!

Thanks again for all of your patience and posts.

PS - Heheh, i just realized too, that with that much overlap I don't need to wear a tunic underneath! lol

[Robert Vermaat]

But what about crest attachments? They've been in use just as long...are they not a fashion which has survived the ages, and also as a sign of rank / soldierly profession?

:?: :?: :?:
Crest attachments? Not as long as they kept using pteryges - these we used at least into the 8th century!

If they were made of linen, and given the resulting thickness, then the pteryges would have the same defensive qualities as a linothorax. By default, it would be armour in itself.

Exactly.

[Crispvs]

"Tarbicus wrote:
If they were made of linen, and given the resulting thickness, then the pteryges would have the same defensive qualities as a linothorax. By default, it would be armour in itself. "

I agree with this but I also like another idea that I seem to remember coming up in the padded armour thread - that of a layer of rawhide to stiffen the pteruges of the rank and file. Rawhide is tough and would have been fairly cheap to obtain. It would also benefit from a leather or fabric covering or edging which would prevent it grazing or cutting the soldier with its hard edges. It seems to me that making pteruges that way would be much faster than gluing and sewing 16 - 20 layers of linen and just as effective.

Sorry to thrown this in so late in the thread.

Crispvs

[Tarbicus]

but I also like another idea that I seem to remember coming up in the padded armour thread - that of a layer of rawhide to stiffen the pteruges

You mean what this daft beggar said :wink:
[url:eouwnx4g]http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic.php?p=89382#89382[/url]

It'll be a more traditional linen subarmalis first now, but I'm still really into rawhide as well.

[Magnus]

rawhide is cheap too, i used one dog chew bone for the edging on my scutum, and it came apart in almost perfect strips for what we'd need for pteryges...hmmmm.

Though i suppose if dogs start chasing me in uniform I'll know why.

[Robert Vermaat]

I know it's cheap and tough, but wouldn't it be too stiff for the purpose?