RomanArmyTalk

Below is a diagram of the planned pteryges I am going to make for my centurion's uniform:



The main material will be 5-7 oz veggie tanned leather, undyed. I may sandwhich 2 pieces of thinner leather for the bottom pteryges, so I can better hide the gold fringe I am planning on sewing there. I basically copied the design from Travis's site, except for the multiple rows of longer rectangular pteryges, and the use of a fabric vs leather.

Do you think I should make the tongue pteryges closer together? Is the shape of them also a bit different...more half circle-ish, or pure oval?

What do you all think?

I think they were better in textile. The braid makes more sense then. If you go for leather, leave the braid away. The round pterges could stay in leather IMO. But you should put in the upper row one always directly next to the previous. A couple of weeks ago there was in the pterges thread a series of pics showing the structure of fabric pterges on Emperor´s statues.

Like this Christian?

Quote:Like this Christian?

Why do you space the square waist pteruges so wide apart Magnus?

Yes, that´s good.
Indeed, the square pterges should be overlapping with at least two layers.

And look at these:

Read also my postings here.

those pteryges look like they have been made of stiffened cloth rather than leather!

M.VIB.M.

Quote:those pteryges look like they have been made of stiffened cloth rather than leather!

Correct.
Pteryges thread.
Pteryges in the 'padded armour' thread.

Yeah, but aren't these all high ranking officers above the rank of centurion? Heck, a lot of them seem to be emperors! The grave stones that show pteryges on lower ranks seem to be a single row.

And don't you think that white linen / silk would be a really hard colour fabric to keep clean, especially when leading from the front? Unless they dyed them red?

In the padded armor thread, Travis said this:

"Here's the options.

Aitor thinks that we have pteruges built up around a cloth core, and I agree that makes the most sense. The core is what makes the fringe naturally on the end.

Felt/fabric pteruges covered in fabric (there is one image that seems to indicate this) and edged on the sides with some liner, leather, or cloth.

Leather covered pteruges with a cloth core.

In either case, the materials would have to be edged/sewn together and we think that is the line we are seeing on so many examples.

On the Primaporta, it looks like stitching, on others it looks like edging, possibly leather.

If the pteruges are made of a fabric/leather over a cloth core, it would make sense that the subarmis is the same, since I think the subarmalis and pteruges are cut from the same piece, like a linothorax. "

I also found a picture in A. Goldsworthy's "Roman Warfare" on page 110 showing a tombstone commemorating a centurion killed in the Varus disaster. He has 2 double rows of small rectangular pteryges, and what may be a longer row with fringes, though the sculptor has made some of these look as though they are being bent in a "U" shape at the sides. No indication of anything more than a single outer row, and the detail on this grave is pretty high.

The Adamklissi monument shows auxilliaries with pteryges, though again it looks like a single row, overlapping a lower row. Definately with some type of edging.

So from what I can gather, most if not all of the evidence comes from statuary of very high ranking officers, if not emperors showing multiple layers of textile pteryges.

Lower ranks seem to only have a single deep row of pteryges...material unknown.

I can close the distance on my longer pteryges, and use 2 layers of leather to sandwhich the braid, instead of the single thicker layer on the tongue pteryges.

Also, could the rim we always see on the pteryges be produced using a stamp on leather?

There has been an investigation into paint remains/coloring on statues in Rome... maybe that can help determine a colour....... since in Rome itself they had access to the Emperor, and his clothing, in stead of the soldiers clothing so heavily debated in the columns discussion on this forum...

so Linen for high rankers, and leather for low rankers is a valid point, even though we just dont know..... since there are not that many clothing regulations preserved..........

M.VIB.M.

Quote:So from what I can gather, most if not all of the evidence comes from statuary of very high ranking officers, if not emperors

No. Fram the 3rd century we have ample evidence for white pterges with coloured stripes at their lower end. These are mostly from frescoes, but still give a good idea. (See e.g. the Dura shield with the amazonomachia)
If you use leather it would IMO make sense to leave the braiding away, as it seems to be the warp threads of the fabric which make the "tassels". There is also evidence for pterges without braiding, which then might hint to leather. (my 2 cents)
You can get great linen band in herringbone pattern for textile pterges here:
www.reenactors.de



This comes also in off-white for 3,50 € /m.
You could unseam the lower part (take out the weft) and tie always four or eight warp-strings into a small tassle.

Take a look at Angus Mcbrides interpretation of the 9AD centurion
from the Kalkriese, in Osprey! These peturges look to be heavy/stiffened linen too!
Am planning on doing that look eventually!

Perhaps with some differences! :lol: They look a lot like the ones on the statue, without the mini onesa around the bottom of the cuirass!

I don't have that book Byron, is there an online picture of this?

Well, based on what i've seen, I'll make the longer set out of linen. FINE!! LOL....just wondering though...can I sandwhich 2 pieces of linen with a canvas or felt core to make it stiffer, instead of using the still expensive linen to do this?

I have another question...linen is a more expensive fabric and harder to procure right? Well, both Trajan's Column, Adamkissi, Bishop and Coulston as well as Connollly both show rank and file legionarys in pteryges. How cost effective would this be? Would it not be easier to simply use leather due to cost and availability?