Roman Musical instruments..

[Susanna]

Thank you, Win ;-) )

Well, the (professionell) musicians (as a profession) were organized in a "collegium". Antique authors inform us also about "ensembles", f.e. kithara, aulos and a singer. I guess the had mostly been something like a "band", cause for professionell presentation they had to have a reahearse and practising before ;-) )

We also have text sources saying that the bucina (which is belived nowadays as to have been a natural horn, f.e. from ox) gave signals for timetables in the castell (f.e. "morning call" was "bucina prima").

[pvblivs cordvs]

Hi Susanna,
I've never heard of a reference to scheduled calls. Cool.
Do you happen to have a literary reference for that.
Do you also happen to have the names of the other calls as well.
You see, I work in shifts and part of me has always wondered what kind of shift-system the Roman guards would have used.
I reckoned they would either use two hour shifts at night (it's the easiest one if they also expect you to do something the next day instead of walking around like a stoned zombie) or something similar to the system of the medieval monks. Since their prayer around 5 am is called vigili (okay, long shot)
Standing guard is a little different from praying.

Thanks for any info.
Wim.

[Susanna]

Here you are:

http://etc.usf.edu/clipart/15900/15912/ ... _15912.htm

(very very good lexikon) :wink:

as in Wikipedia (I just checked the articel and the call the cornu a bucina, which is wrong), but the original sources are right and they are:

Livy vii. 35, xxvi. 15; Prop. v. 4, 63; Tac. Ann. xv. 30; Vegetius, De re militari, ii. 22, iii. 5; Polyb. vi. 365, xiv. 3, 7. ' Stratagematicon, i. 5, § 17.

[pvblivs cordvs]

Wow, thanks.
It will take some time to sort through that, but then again, that's the fun part.
Cheers, Wim.

[M. Demetrius]

He played the kithara as a stringed instrument.

I am planning to make a 6 string kithara. Once done, to what notes should the strings be tuned?

Any links to info on construction of modern replicas would be helpful.
Thanks.

[Susanna]

Hi David,

well there are not 6-string-kitharas...cause they mostly had seven (!) strings. But this has to do with nomenclatur ,-)

If you mean a 6-string, then this will be a lyra (see here:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trossinger_Leier ).

Its late-antique/early medieval, if you compare all dates of founds of this kind of lyra. (also founds in GB f.e.)
Founds are of Allemanen (Graves of Oberflacht) or Franken (Church St.Severin Cologne) or Early Viking (Sutton Hoo).
My husband´s website shows his reconstruction of the St.Severin Lyra here: http://www.ralfgehler.de/fiedel.htm (you have to scroll down).
On our website ( www.musica-romana.de ) you can see at the start-picture another 6-string my husband made and I am playing a seven string kithara (1./2. cent.AD) he made, too.

The tuning and reconstruction (form) is almost different depending on the period you choose. Also the kind of wood is very important.

If you let me know... I may help you!

[LVCIVS VVLPES]

Hi Musicians

this article could be of some interest for you, sorry in Dutch only

www.ethesis.net/muziekinstrumenten/muziekinstrumenten.htm

cheers

Luc

[Susanna]

I know that article and have raed it, thank you very much.
The article has some very nice points of view and things I recommand very much.

But, the reconstruction of the Lyra is wrong. The tail-piece down should be out of bronze .f.e., the strings must be closer together, the bridge should be much smaller as you might play with a plectrum. The string bar just ends up the arms, but the drawn picture shows it clear different...blabla... :roll: :oops:

[M. Demetrius]

You are of course correct, Susanna. 7 strings. I'm interested in finding out what the interval of the tuning might be. It should be possible to play chords on it by plucking groups of strings, or melodies of sorts by picking individual strings. I don't see it necessarily as a lead instrument, but as an accompanying instrument for voice or other instruments.

The actual name of the instrument seems to be "chelys". What I'm looking to make is something that an everyday person might use to amuse himself with, rather than a concert or theatre instrument. Like David's shepherd's harp, so to speak. A picture of what looks to be a modern reconstruction is found on this page:



Now that's a link! Hope it comes through all right. I googled kithara on the images page, and picked the one www . ethesis . net showed as an unstained version, with the strings apparently tied like a modern classical guitar at the bridge, and wooden tuning pegs at the, uh, headpiece?

[Marcus Mummius]

I know that article and have raed it, thank you very much.
The article has some very nice points of view and things I recommand very much.

That's the Master scription of a girl who was in my year at university.
:lol:

[Susanna]

:wink:

Ok, David, Chelys means turtle as that is a lyra, not a kithara.
It was made from a turtle-body which is not easy to become.
(I have three and it need years to got it.)

Do not take this picture as a godd replica...it is not very playable...

The tail-piece down should be out of bronze .f.e., the strings must be closer together, the bridge should be much smaller as you might play with a plectrum. The string bar just ends up the arms, but the drawn picture shows it clear different...blabla...

If you google Kithara most comes out of replicas (beside there quality) are classical greek period, absolutly not proved for Roman times.

This is a very good replica (in my opinion):
click here

and you can use it from 6th cent. BC up to 5th cent. AD... :wink:
but the tuning will differ trough centuries and it depends what you wanna play...[/quote]

[M. Demetrius]

Thanks, Susanna
I have two more questions for starters, if you please

1 In the picture from your link, I'm guessing the type of wood isn't that important, except that it needs to be strong enough to keep from bending under the stress of the strings. What approximate dimensions can I use for reference?
2. Are the strings plucked like a harp, or struck like a hammered dulcimer? I'm supposing the instrument tied to the sound board is the plectrum, or the hammer, am I right?

Thanks again.