Hello All,<br>
I'm interested to know the date range for the Valkenburg type scabbard plate as illustrated on a pompeii gladius made by Godfrey Knight in the supplier's section of the Legio XX website. I read an article with reference to the plate but cannot remember where it was located and can't find info on the internet.<br>
TIA...John<br>
<p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=jflaherty@romanarmytalk>JFlaherty</A> at: 11/3/03 10:07 am<br></i>
Posts: 1,962
Threads: 106
Joined: Apr 2003
Reputation:
7
SALVE<br>
<br>
I do'nt agree with the adscription of the Valkenburg plate as belonging to a Pompei-type scabbard. I prefer to consider that plate as a Mainz-type scabbard: is too wide and is very similar to a complete exemplar of Corsica.<br>
<br>
The more specific study on roman scabbard, i mean, is:<br>
<br>
Künzl, E. 1996: ‘Gladiusdekorationen der frühen römischen Kaiserzeit, dynastische Legitimation, Victoria und Aurea Aetas’, Jahrbuch des Römisch-Germanischen Zentralmuseums Mainz 43, 383-474<br>
<br>
Both Valkenburg and Corsica scabbards are included.<br>
<br>
Vale<br>
<p></p><i></i>
Posts: 1,962
Threads: 106
Joined: Apr 2003
Reputation:
7
SALVE<br>
<br>
I have found a replica of the Corsica exemplar, make by ARMAE.COM (France)<br>
armae.com/surmesure/fourreau.jpg<br>
<br>
<img src="http://armae.com/surmesure/fourreau.jpg" style="border:0;"/><br>
<br>
VALE <p></p><i></i>
I own a Scabbard Plate that looks very similar to the Valkenburg one, and Corsica example. It is wider than a pomeii sheath, and I too believe it is from a Mainz type Gladius.<br>
<br>
I'd like to post a picture, but don't have a site to upload it on.....<br>
<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
<br>
<br>
P.S I agree with both of u above. Definately looks Mainz type, not sure why he put that same example onto a Pompeii gladius though....<br>
<p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=markusaurelius@romanarmytalk>Markus Aurelius</A> at: 11/8/03 9:03 am<br></i>
<img src="http://members.shaw.ca/Markusmunt/pictures/swordsheathplate.jpg" style="border:0;"/><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Can anyone help identify the period this Galdius Plate comes from?<br>
<br>
My guess like I stated above is that it comes from a Mainz Gladius, and from what I understand that puts it before Claudius and after Caesar according to Feugere. It is definately wider than a pompeii sheath top, hence making me think it's from a wider top end of a Mainz type sword.<br>
<br>
It measures 77mm wide.....<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
<br>
Markus <p></p><i></i>
Posts: 1,962
Threads: 106
Joined: Apr 2003
Reputation:
7
SALVE<br>
<br>
That's very interesting. I remember a very, very similar exemplar like yours at Germany (Mainz?). Is nearly identical at the Valkenburg Plate and Corsica, except the central motive (Valkenburg is a rossette, Corsica is a circular pattern). Another could be the so called Long Windsor Sword, found in England.<br>
<br>
I agree with your adscription. Like i have said before, 77 mm is very wide to be a Pompei-like scabbard.<br>
<br>
Sorry, but probably i will make a reproduction of your chape.<br>
Thanks to post it.<br>
<br>
VALE <p></p><i></i>
Posts: 2,540
Threads: 43
Joined: Feb 2003
Reputation:
0
That is not a chape, Lucius, it's a mouth-piece<br>
<br>
Aitor <p></p><i></i>
It\'s all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever.
Rolf Steiner
Posts: 1,962
Threads: 106
Joined: Apr 2003
Reputation:
7
Thanks, Aitor.<br>
<br>
My english...<br>
<br>
What is a chape?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<p></p><i></i>
Posts: 2,540
Threads: 43
Joined: Feb 2003
Reputation:
0
Eeer.. If I have understood it correctly , the chape is the piece at the lower tip of the scabbard, but I must admit the English is not my native language either!<br>
<br>
Aitor <p></p><i></i>
It\'s all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever.
Rolf Steiner
Posts: 330
Threads: 2
Joined: Jan 2003
Reputation:
2
You're correct! <p>Greetings<br>
<br>
Rob Wolters</p><i></i>
drsrob a.k.a. Rob Wolters
The plate is definately form a mainz type of scabbard and dates from the '40 of the first century AD.<br>
<br>
Arpvar <p></p><i></i>
There is a further example which has been found at Vindonissa (modern Windisch) in Switzerland. Again the dimensions are more appropriate for the Mainz pattern blade. From what i can remember, it was very crude (or possibly damaged) with a peculiar rhombus shaped central cut out. I believe this "type" of mouth piece is in fact a much more simplified and durable progression of earlier (Augustan) cut out designs.<br>
<br>
I dont think the idea of these chapes being for the socalled mainz type is at all new, as far as i can remember E. Kunzl classified them as appropriate for the mainz style several years ago. I am only surprised that most reenactors havent picked up on this, it seems that recent reinterpretations of the Long Windsor pattern (White contra Simkins) may have to be reinterpreted again!<br>
<br>
Where did the above pictured example come from? i've never seen it. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=enniuspaulinus>Ennius Paulinus</A> at: 3/13/04 12:47 pm<br></i>
Posts: 1,962
Threads: 106
Joined: Apr 2003
Reputation:
7
SALVE<br>
<br>
Well, at Pompei is another exemplar of this particular kind of scabbard. It is very short. It's published at the catalogue of a recent exposition.<br>
<br>
It seems that there are a lot of variations and types at roman swords in general, but at so called "Mainz type" in particular.<br>
<br>
Vale <p></p><i></i>
|
