Date Range of Valkenburg Plate? - Printable Version +- RomanArmyTalk (https://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat) +-- Forum: Research Arena (https://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/forumdisplay.php?fid=4) +--- Forum: Roman Military History & Archaeology (https://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/forumdisplay.php?fid=8) +--- Thread: Date Range of Valkenburg Plate? (/showthread.php?tid=1163) |
Date Range of Valkenburg Plate? - Anonymous - 11-03-2003 Hello All,<br> I'm interested to know the date range for the Valkenburg type scabbard plate as illustrated on a pompeii gladius made by Godfrey Knight in the supplier's section of the Legio XX website. I read an article with reference to the plate but cannot remember where it was located and can't find info on the internet.<br> TIA...John<br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=jflaherty@romanarmytalk>JFlaherty</A> at: 11/3/03 10:07 am<br></i> Re: Date Range of Valkenburg Plate? - LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS - 11-03-2003 SALVE<br> <br> I do'nt agree with the adscription of the Valkenburg plate as belonging to a Pompei-type scabbard. I prefer to consider that plate as a Mainz-type scabbard: is too wide and is very similar to a complete exemplar of Corsica.<br> <br> The more specific study on roman scabbard, i mean, is:<br> <br> Künzl, E. 1996: ‘Gladiusdekorationen der frühen römischen Kaiserzeit, dynastische Legitimation, Victoria und Aurea Aetas’, Jahrbuch des Römisch-Germanischen Zentralmuseums Mainz 43, 383-474<br> <br> Both Valkenburg and Corsica scabbards are included.<br> <br> Vale<br> <p></p><i></i> Re: Date Range of Valkenburg Plate? - LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS - 11-06-2003 SALVE<br> <br> I have found a replica of the Corsica exemplar, make by ARMAE.COM (France)<br> armae.com/surmesure/fourreau.jpg<br> <br> <img src="http://armae.com/surmesure/fourreau.jpg" style="border:0;"/><br> <br> VALE <p></p><i></i> Re: Date Range of Valkenburg Plate? - Anonymous - 11-07-2003 I own a Scabbard Plate that looks very similar to the Valkenburg one, and Corsica example. It is wider than a pomeii sheath, and I too believe it is from a Mainz type Gladius.<br> <br> I'd like to post a picture, but don't have a site to upload it on.....<br> <br> <br> Cheers<br> <br> <br> P.S I agree with both of u above. Definately looks Mainz type, not sure why he put that same example onto a Pompeii gladius though....<br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=markusaurelius@romanarmytalk>Markus Aurelius</A> at: 11/8/03 9:03 am<br></i> Re: Date Range of Valkenburg Plate? - Anonymous - 11-08-2003 <img src="http://members.shaw.ca/Markusmunt/pictures/swordsheathplate.jpg" style="border:0;"/><br> <br> <br> <br> Can anyone help identify the period this Galdius Plate comes from?<br> <br> My guess like I stated above is that it comes from a Mainz Gladius, and from what I understand that puts it before Claudius and after Caesar according to Feugere. It is definately wider than a pompeii sheath top, hence making me think it's from a wider top end of a Mainz type sword.<br> <br> It measures 77mm wide.....<br> <br> Cheers<br> <br> Markus <p></p><i></i> Re: Date Range of Valkenburg Plate? - LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS - 11-10-2003 SALVE<br> <br> That's very interesting. I remember a very, very similar exemplar like yours at Germany (Mainz?). Is nearly identical at the Valkenburg Plate and Corsica, except the central motive (Valkenburg is a rossette, Corsica is a circular pattern). Another could be the so called Long Windsor Sword, found in England.<br> <br> I agree with your adscription. Like i have said before, 77 mm is very wide to be a Pompei-like scabbard.<br> <br> Sorry, but probably i will make a reproduction of your chape.<br> Thanks to post it.<br> <br> VALE <p></p><i></i> Re: Date Range of Valkenburg Plate? - aitor iriarte - 11-10-2003 That is not a chape, Lucius, it's a mouth-piece<br> <br> Aitor <p></p><i></i> Re: Date Range of Valkenburg Plate? - LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS - 11-10-2003 Thanks, Aitor.<br> <br> My english...<br> <br> What is a chape?<br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <p></p><i></i> Re: Date Range of Valkenburg Plate? - aitor iriarte - 11-10-2003 Eeer.. If I have understood it correctly , the chape is the piece at the lower tip of the scabbard, but I must admit the English is not my native language either!<br> <br> Aitor <p></p><i></i> Re: Date Range of Valkenburg Plate? - drsrob - 11-10-2003 You're correct! <p>Greetings<br> <br> Rob Wolters</p><i></i> date range of Valkenburg plate - Anonymous - 03-12-2004 The plate is definately form a mainz type of scabbard and dates from the '40 of the first century AD.<br> <br> Arpvar <p></p><i></i> Re: date range of Valkenburg plate - Anonymous - 03-13-2004 There is a further example which has been found at Vindonissa (modern Windisch) in Switzerland. Again the dimensions are more appropriate for the Mainz pattern blade. From what i can remember, it was very crude (or possibly damaged) with a peculiar rhombus shaped central cut out. I believe this "type" of mouth piece is in fact a much more simplified and durable progression of earlier (Augustan) cut out designs.<br> <br> I dont think the idea of these chapes being for the socalled mainz type is at all new, as far as i can remember E. Kunzl classified them as appropriate for the mainz style several years ago. I am only surprised that most reenactors havent picked up on this, it seems that recent reinterpretations of the Long Windsor pattern (White contra Simkins) may have to be reinterpreted again!<br> <br> Where did the above pictured example come from? i've never seen it. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=enniuspaulinus>Ennius Paulinus</A> at: 3/13/04 12:47 pm<br></i> Re: date range of Valkenburg plate - LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS - 03-15-2004 SALVE<br> <br> Well, at Pompei is another exemplar of this particular kind of scabbard. It is very short. It's published at the catalogue of a recent exposition.<br> <br> It seems that there are a lot of variations and types at roman swords in general, but at so called "Mainz type" in particular.<br> <br> Vale <p></p><i></i> |