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Question about the Gutmann italic H iron helmet
#1
http://www.romanarmy.com/cms/component/ ... Itemid,96/


I was looking through the helmet database and have noticed an unusual detail about this helmet, on the inside where the neckguard begins there is a bronze flange attached underneath the neckguard and continuing the line of the helmet down slightly in line with the wearers head. On this vertical part there are three slots.

Has there been any speculation or research that would suggest a purpose for this attachment?
I thought it may be to attach strapping at first,but the fact these holes are rectangular slots rather than rivet holes make me wonder otherwise.
Would something else be attached? What?

http://www.romanarmy.com/cms/index2.php ... talH-2.jpg
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#2
A leather strap would pass through them nicely.
TARBICvS/Jim Bowers
A A A DESEDO DESEDO!
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#3
I figure they may have had a pad attached to stop the helmet tipping back all the time?
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
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#4
Damn! Never noticed that before! :oops:

Yes, I agree with Jim - this might well be an alternative method for securing the helmet to the wearer's head, instead of the ring at the rear of the neck guard. It might even be a more reliable method of doing so - in which case we have another puzzle - why wasn't it used more often?
visne scire quod credam? credo orbes volantes exstare.
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#5
Or you could possibly have a doubler attached, or secure it to your armour.... I think a pad would be a good possibility tho', given there are three holes?
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
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#6
Quote:Damn! Never noticed that before! :oops:

Yes, I agree with Jim - this might well be an alternative method for securing the helmet to the wearer's head, instead of the ring at the rear of the neck guard. It might even be a more reliable method of doing so - in which case we have another puzzle - why wasn't it used more often?
Yup, I also wish I'd spotted that when I was making the plans for the Deepeeka version. :?

Perhaps it just wasn't that popular? That said, and AFAIK, we always assume very thin leather thonging was used on other helmets and simply tied. For all we know it may have been straps, still thin, but with buckles, or studs that went through holes. It's something I've mulled over now and again. AFAIK, the Pyrrhus bust with the straps that fix onto the cheek piece outer studs via holes (Montefortinos and Galic A style) is the only decent representation we have of such a thing. If anyone else knows of any others they'd be good to see.
TARBICvS/Jim Bowers
A A A DESEDO DESEDO!
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#7
I was wondering why you didn't put it in.... :roll:

In fact I was sure I had asked if it was being included.....
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
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#8
Quote:I was wondering why you didn't put it in.... :roll:

In fact I was sure I had asked if it was being included.....
Really? I just looked through the entire thread and can't find any mention of it.

(edited)
TARBICvS/Jim Bowers
A A A DESEDO DESEDO!
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#9
I have to doubt the strapping answer,the reason being if a strap were to be passed through this piece I think at least four slots would be needed to make it symmetrical and secure otherwise it would pull to one side.
I ask myself, what would need slots?

I have the Depeeka repro of this helmet and may attempt to make this piece myself at some stage,perhaps it'll make sense when its worn.
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#10
You probably scared me out of asking.... :wink:
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
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#11
It could be two fixed straps either side. The right strap crosses over to the left side of the neck, and vice versa for the other. The straps then secure the helmet to the head better. The central slot could be for each strap to loop through and back to themselves, where they could be securely stitched. There'd be little point in four slots with that arrangement, as a fourth slot would just be 'make work'.
TARBICvS/Jim Bowers
A A A DESEDO DESEDO!
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#12
But then they would be tight on a sherp edge?
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
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#13
But if the helmet's secure then there might not be much rubbing.

Who knows?
TARBICvS/Jim Bowers
A A A DESEDO DESEDO!
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#14
Possibly! I would still want some padding mind you....my helmet tips back, so i had a cap made wit han extended pad to balance it. But it may just be the modern helms!
But that is not a bad idea the more I think on it...
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
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#15
The Guttman helmet have a bigger neckguard than other helmets. probably to support the extra weight of the neckguard, is the reason because that implement is used... Who knows? :lol:
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