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Roman Army Influence on Modern Warfare
#1
Hello! I am in the process of writing a paper for my history class on the subject that the Romans had a significant influence on modern warfare- battlefield techniques, armor, cavalry and formations. Can anyone tell me if there are people after the empire who have been influenced by the Roman army, or took some Roman idea and modified it to use in war? Where would be the best place to look for this information, any particular books? I have a few of Goldsworthy's, one by Pat Southern (The Roman Army) and Ann Hyland (Training the Roman Cavalry) but I can't seem to find what I'm looking for. I would really appreciate any help anyone can give me.
Thanks in advance, Alastair :wink:
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#2
Look into the armies of the 1470's, 1500's and 1600's. They were heavily influenced by the Roman Way. There is a "revival" (with the Renaissance, pun intended) of the strategies and works of Caesar, Tacticus, Vegetius and Maurice (Strategikon)

The development of the Pike Square in the late 1400's into the 15 and 1600's is nearly directly taken from the Phalanx as well as Alexander the Great's tactics and formations. (look into the Swiss Pike Square, and the Battle of Grandson 1476 among others)

The Swiss and Dutch were big proponents of "Roman" tactics in the late 1500's-1600's, I believe one famous general went by the name of Maurice of Nassau in the early 1600's (not to be confused with the Strategikon written by a Maurice in the 5th century!), and was also influenced by the writings of Aelian (variations on spelling occurs), Livy and Polybius. There is an Illustration of a "Target and Shield Man" in the 1625 manual "The Exercise of Arms"...You can see this illustration in Osprey's "Republican Roman Army 200-104 BC" Men At Arms 291, Page 23. His posture is very close to that of the Mainz relief showing the Legionary in "fighting stance"

http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic. ... ght=aelian

Also, the Italian fencing master Giacamo di Grassi mentions "Roman" tactics in his "True Arte of Defense" ca. 1570, mentioning that Thrusting is the prefered and best tactic to use, as a slash takes too long and is easily seen by your oponent (I'm paraphrasing here) ~ Much as Vegetius writes in the Late Empire that 'thrusting is the best attack, taking the slash on the shield and thrusting into the oponent is most effective' (again, paraphrasing)

There is also a manual currently being researched and translated, a Fechtbuch by a Paulus H Mair (ca. 1530's) that mentions that the Poleaxe and Quarterstaff was developed by the Romans...Which is a little awkward, but I mention it because there is sometimes the "fantastical" Roman influence...Dare I say "Romanesque".

In more modern terms, one of the easiest to see is Napoleon in the 17-1800's. Supposedly he directly took the idea of the Roman Aquila Eagle standard and designed his own Eagles for his armies. The Curaissiers and Carabiniers of that timeperiod also had bits of Roman like stuff on thier armor and helmets - the horse "ponytail" crest you see on Cuirassiers and on the British Royal Guard (Palace guard? sorry I forget the proper term), can easily been seen from Late Republican ponytail crests on Montefortinos and Coolus helmets, such as the Ahenoborus relief.

In the American Civil War, there is Romanesque styled swords that were worn by some Artillery crews, among other bits here and there.

Of course there is the revival of Roman stuff in World War 2, with Mussolini and the Fascists (name from the Fasces, the bundles of rods and axe symbolizing Roman Law and Authority), as well as his dreams of re-inventing Rome and the "New Empire".

Also take a look today at modern Police Riot gear and tactics - You'll see the use of large shields (now out of plexiglas and whatnot instead of wood and leather/felt), and helmets that have neck guards. Interesting similar to Legionary gear.
Andy Volpe
"Build a time machine, it would make this [hobby] a lot easier."
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Legion III Cyrenaica ~ New England U.S.
Higgins Armory Museum 1931-2013 (worked there 2001-2013)
(Collection moved to Worcester Art Museum)
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#3
I'd be willing to help you. I am off to an event this weekend, but afterward I can help.

You'd be amazed even today how much influence can be traced back to Rome in the modern military. I have over 18 years in the service so I think I might be able to provide you for what you are looking for.

Shoot me a PM with your questions and we can go from there.

Mike
Mike Daniels
a.k.a

Titus Minicius Parthicus

Legio VI FFC.


If not me...who?

If not now...when?
:wink: <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" />:wink:
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#4
Hi,
this article can help you a little bit:

Shrader, C. R. (1981). The Influence of Vegetius' De re militari. Military Affairs, 45(4), 167-172.

Greetings
Alexandr
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#5
You need to read Machiavelli's On the Art of War. http://www.constitution.org/mac/artofwar1.htm
His thoughts on Roman tactics are great reading. For example:
http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic. ... 7042#97042
TARBICvS/Jim Bowers
A A A DESEDO DESEDO!
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#6
Maurice of Nassau...indeed he was influenced by the romans. Correct me if i am wrong but did't he even wrote an essay of his new tactics?

De Nassausche Wapen-handelinge (1618) but this is from someone else who made in in honour of Maurice.

Maybe that Vortigern or someone else from the Netherlands can give more detail?
Tot ziens.
Geert S. (Sol Invicto Comiti)
Imperator Caesar divi Marci Antonini Pii Germanici Sarmatici ½filius divi Commodi frater divi Antonini Pii nepos divi Hadriani pronepos divi Traiani Parthici abnepos divi Nervae adnepos Lucius Septimius Severus Pius Pertinax Augustus Arabicus ½Adiabenicus Parthicus maximus pontifex maximus
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#7
You pretty much got it. One thing that might make a good tidbit for your paper on top of the abovementioned is one Johann Jacpobi von Wallhausen, a military scientist of the early 17th century who published several drill manuals as well as a very successful illustrated 'Romanische Kriegskunst' (Frankfurt 1616, French translation 'de la milice Romaine' ditto Frankfurt 1616). The two books share a significant amount of content.

Found referenced in the (more accessible) Sydney Anglo: The martial Arts in REnaissance Europe, Yale UP 2000
Der Kessel ist voll Bärks!

Volker Bach
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#8
Thanks people!
You have all given me a ton of stuff to look at where as yesterday I had very little. I should get to it now , I guess!
But thanks for all your ideas and if there are any more keep em coming!
I lived in England and Wales for 30 years before moving to the US, I was surrounded by roman influence, especially in Exeter and Bath and lived right next to Roman ruins in Wales but never really payed that much notice to it all. I've just spent 3 weeks learning about the Republic and the Empire, what an amazing span of history it was. I'm most impressed that the Roman army never gave up trying to win!
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#9
The inspirational role of the Romans in the development of early modern warfare is nicely summed up in Thomas Arnold's The Renaissance at War. Machiavelli was a strong advocate of Roman practices, but the importance of the Dutch innovator Maurice of Nassau is probably greater.

However, the importance of Roman models precedes the Renaissance. The epitome of Vegetius was known throughout the High Medieval period; being mentioned as early as the 11th century - a copy was known to be owned by the Count of Anjou, Fulk the Black / Fulk Nerra, if I recall aright. It is cited (or plagarised) up to the work of Christine de Pizan. It seems medieval readers tended to ignore the parts which were irrelevant to their style of war (i.e. infantry training techniques), but may have noted other parts of the text (i.e. siege tricks).
Felix Wang
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#10
You could also look at:

Donald A. Neill Ancestral Voices: The influence of the Ancients on the Military Thought of the Seventeenth and Eighteenth Centuries, The Journal of Military History 62.3 (1998), 487-520

Cheers

Murray
Murray K Dahm

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#11
Just to add a little flavour senior British NCOs still carry a version of the vine stick :?
Conal Moran

Do or do not, there is no try!
Yoda
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