Gladius Handle Help...

[Nihonius Legio]

I'd sure like to get into a job where I travel the world. I want to get out of Montana! 1st stop, Japan!

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

I spent a couple of years in Montana, mountains were great....long time ago now it seems! roll:

[Nihonius Legio]

I live in the crappy part of Montana with no mountains I snowboard at Red Lodge though.
Where did you live?

[Nihonius Legio]

I just noticed a problem with my handle that I hope can be resolved...
I hope this makes sense but to fit my hand, it seems to need 5 grooves instead of 4 as pictured on Leg XX. My hand only feels right so far with a groove for each finger, otherwise my hand will likely feel cramped to fit on it. Lets see if I can get good pics to show this...


This shows my hand in a comfortable hold, but with my little finger in the groove that will be removed later to leave only 4 grooves...


This shows roughly how my hand would look if on a shortened 4 groove handle. I marked where I will cut and where the extra groove is that would be removed. The handle would still be the 3-4 inches long suggested on Leg XX, but at present that doesnt seem likely to work for me. I dont know.

Any ideas/opinions?

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Make it to fit your hand, as a Roman would have possibly had smaller hands.

I was in Kalispel BTW

[M. Demetrius]

If you are going to have the wood in the handle fit an inset in the pommel and guard, don't forget to leave the handle long enough for that, or it will end up too short when the handle goes inside the other wood parts. I believe it should be a slightly snug fit for your hand, but not tight enough to make holding the sword difficult or uncomfortable.

Do you plan to put the brass in an inset on the blade side of the guard? The Dremel can grind out that part, also.

Trim the tang last, naturally, once all else is in place.

[PhilusEstilius]

I do not wish to sound rude in any way but having looked at most of the comments on this subject, I would like to say there is an old saying of "The Cart before The Horse" This is what I appear to discover here for like my very good friend Brennivs, I have made that many swords I now forget just how many over 30 years now.

The situation is also very much like a hand in a glove the first thing is the handle has to fit a tang, therefore the size of the tang determines the handle. I would suggest a tang made on a piece of 5mm thick steel which is the thickness, then the width has to be around 13mm for those imperial that's 1/2 an inch. This is where we have to assume that the sword blade has been made first like our horse and then the cart, what we need now is a piece of wood I mostly prefer oak.

The wood needs to be cut 45mm X 35mm X 152mm imp'. 1 3/4" X 1 3/8" X 6" It now needs to be marked on the ends giving a rectangle 5mm X 13mm. Then as has been already mentioned a drill just less than 5mm is used to drill out the wood to fit the tang, this has to be done as neat as possible so the 6" piece of wood is put into a vice not too tight.

It is better first to center punch 2 holes inside the rectangle on each end of the wood, so that the drill has somthing to follow, put the wood in the vice at 30 degrees so one can see just how straight the drill is going and very slowly take the lower hole half way in. Then reverse the 6" length and do the same again untill the drill goes thro', now rotate the wood 360 degrees and drill the other 2 center punched holes more carefully this time then clean out with files until there is a nice neat rectangle for the tang.

The next step is now to make the finger grips mark out the wood so there is a one inch at both ends or 25mm, hold gentley in the vice at the inch point lay on your fingers to get the 4 points to FILE out, it's much better to File them and one can take down the pinkie finger deaper but not too far or you go thro' the tang hole.

Then when all is sanded down and smooth cut each end 7/8" off or 22mm to allow for recess into pommel and hand guard, then with the end of the tang cut down a bit more one can run on a thread to tighten it all down.

[Matthew Amt]

If you are going to have the wood in the handle fit an inset in the pommel and guard, don't forget to leave the handle long enough for that, or it will end up too short when the handle goes inside the other wood parts.

The grip inset into the pommel and guard?? I've never seen any indication of that. They just butt together, and not necessarily perfectly.

Jared, I hadn't noticed that you made 5 grooves! Four is the norm--there might be a couple examples with 5, though I can't recall any offhand. I've seen one with just 3. They don't necessarily correspond exactly with your fingers. The grooves and ridges are just there to give a better grip. Or maybe they're just fashion!

My advice, cut off one groove, leaving as much of the "crest" as you can, and cut the other end off near that groove. The total length should be about the width of your hand or fist, not counting the thumb, but don't worry if the grip ends up being a little less than that. Now, it does make some sense to just *mark* where those cuts will be until you get all the work done, so that you have more to hold onto while working, or for clamping in the vise, etc. But I always just cut mine to the length I want first thing, and go from there. A scrap of leather cushions the piece nicely when it's in the vise. That's another advantage to an octagonal or hexagonal shape, you can just work on one face at a time, and don't have to worry about keeping it round. If the faces don't match, perfect!

Oh, have you seen this?

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/gladhnts.html#bonegrip

The main difference in your case is that wood is much easier to work than bone.

Keep at it!

Matthew

[PhilusEstilius]

Matthew. I was very delighted to see my Velsen dagger on your web link at Armarmentarium, that particular one was the second of the seven copies that I have made up to now thank you so much.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Yeah, Dave...Gee, where did you come up with that brainwave? hock: hock: :o roll: :!: :!: :?: :?: :?: :mrgreen:

[M. Demetrius]

I haven't seen any inset handles, either, Matt, although I freely admit I haven't examined all that many gladius parts. I was just going by the previously shown picture from Brennius. I personally would not want to do that extra carpentry work, as it would be enough trouble to get all the pieces flat and lined up correctly given my meager skills as it is. Insetting the brass plate at the guard is plenty difficult, as far as I'm concerned, without putting the handle into a pair of notches.

But like I said, I was just going by what was shown before, back on page 1.

[Nihonius Legio]

So a plate of brass goes inset into the top of the guard and on the underside as well? Or just on top?

[brennivs - tony drake]

Demetrivs, Matt the vast majority of handle parts do not have any insert they are flat, however I have come across grips with to me look like they are inserted into the gaurd and pommel I am trying to find them will post. I have a drawing I did of one from Dorchester
Regards Brennivs

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

No, the brass plate is on the underside, or pointy end, blade side, away from you side, of the guard.

[Nihonius Legio]

Lol Gaivs, nice way of describing the guard. I would describe the are where my hand is as the underside, but I guess it depends on how you view the sword. So no plate or indent for the handle on the "inside" part of the guard?

Hey Brennivs, I put a new post on your sword tutorial. I also have a question I forgot to ask there. I have all the dimensions for a Pompeii sword except for how long the edges of the point are supposed to be cut (the two sides of the triangle end)
I think I said on the post that I liked Mainz style more, its actaully the fulham I wish I could do. You'll see that there...

Oh ya, I bought the steel for the blade. I was surprised it only cost me $3.15. I'm starting with mild steel and will probably move to high carbon if I can get this one right.

-Nihonius