12-18-2004, 07:17 PM
I had a delve in my library and came up with this from Vegetius. He was writing in c. 390 AD about the "good old days" when the Legionary infantry was all-powerful.(Latin phrases in brackets, translation by Milner).<br>
"Ch.32 The prefect of the fleet at Misenum was in command of the warships stationed in Campania, whilst those located on the Ionian Sea were retained by the prefect of the fleet in Ravenna. Under them each were ten tribunes appointed one for each cohort. Each warship had a single captain (navarchus) ie a kind of merchant shipowner, who was exempted from other duties of sailors and put in a daily responsibility and unfailing efforts to training oarsmen (remiges) and marines (milites)."<br>
"Ch 37 The sailors and marines put on Venetian blue uniforms also, so as to lie hidden with greater ease when scouting by day as by night."<br>
"Ch.44 Land warfare requires many types of arms; but naval warfare demands more kinds of arms, including machines and torsion-engines as if the fighting were on walls and towers. What could be crueller than a naval battle, where men perish by water and by fire? So particular care should be given to protective armour, so that soldiers may be protected with mail/ scale shirts (cataphracti), cuirasses (loricati),helmets, and also greaves. No one can complain about the weight of armour, since he fights standing on ships. Stronger and larger shields (scuta) are also taken up against the impact of stones. Besides drags (falces=falxes)and grapnels (harpagones) and other naval kinds of weapons, there are arrows, javelins, slings, sling-staves, lead-weighted darts, mangonels, catapults and hand-catapults (scorpiones), shooting darts and stones at each other. More dangerously still, those confident of their courage move up their warships alongside, throw out bridges and cross to the enemies to fight it out there hand-to-hand, or comminus as it is called. On larger warships, they even erect fortifications and towers, so that they may easily wound or kill their enemies from higher decks as if from a wall. Arrows wrapped in "burning-oil", tow, sulphur, and bitumen are implanted burning by catapults in the bellies of hostile ships, and soon set light to the planking payed with wax, pitch, and resin- so much kindling for fires. Some are slain by steel and stones, others are forced to burn to death in the water. Among so many forms of death the bitterest fate is that the bodies are left unburied to be eaten by fish."<br>
"Ch 46... three types of weapon contribute most towards victory- beams, drags, and battle-axes.The "beam" is the name for a thin, long shaft like a yard-arm, which hangs from the mast and has an iron head at both ends...they violently drive this instead of a battering ram. The "drag" (falx) is the term for a very sharp iron blade curved like a sickle and mounted on long poles. It quickly cuts the rigging from which the yard-arm is suspended, and the sails collapse rendering the warship slow and useless. The "battle-axe" (bipennis=double axe) is an axe which has on both sides a broad and very sharp iron blade. By means of these, in the midst of battle very skilled sailors or marines in small skiffs secretly cut the cables binding the adversaries' steering gear. Once this is done, the ship is captured immediately, being disarmed and disabled. For what escape is left for him who has lost his rudder?"<br>
<br>
To me, this sounds like an eye-witness account- for example, weapons such as weighted darts were very much a Late Roman weapon. It also would necessitate separate specialist training for troops who were to fight on sea. So, marines existed in the early Roman period- they seem to have existed in the Late Roman period. The balance of probability points strongly to them having existed between these dates.<br>
<br>
Hope this is helpful. Jasper- who is the audience for your paper?<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
<br>
Paulus <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=paulusbrittanicus>Paulus Brittanicus</A> at: 12/18/04 8:33 pm<br></i>
"Ch.32 The prefect of the fleet at Misenum was in command of the warships stationed in Campania, whilst those located on the Ionian Sea were retained by the prefect of the fleet in Ravenna. Under them each were ten tribunes appointed one for each cohort. Each warship had a single captain (navarchus) ie a kind of merchant shipowner, who was exempted from other duties of sailors and put in a daily responsibility and unfailing efforts to training oarsmen (remiges) and marines (milites)."<br>
"Ch 37 The sailors and marines put on Venetian blue uniforms also, so as to lie hidden with greater ease when scouting by day as by night."<br>
"Ch.44 Land warfare requires many types of arms; but naval warfare demands more kinds of arms, including machines and torsion-engines as if the fighting were on walls and towers. What could be crueller than a naval battle, where men perish by water and by fire? So particular care should be given to protective armour, so that soldiers may be protected with mail/ scale shirts (cataphracti), cuirasses (loricati),helmets, and also greaves. No one can complain about the weight of armour, since he fights standing on ships. Stronger and larger shields (scuta) are also taken up against the impact of stones. Besides drags (falces=falxes)and grapnels (harpagones) and other naval kinds of weapons, there are arrows, javelins, slings, sling-staves, lead-weighted darts, mangonels, catapults and hand-catapults (scorpiones), shooting darts and stones at each other. More dangerously still, those confident of their courage move up their warships alongside, throw out bridges and cross to the enemies to fight it out there hand-to-hand, or comminus as it is called. On larger warships, they even erect fortifications and towers, so that they may easily wound or kill their enemies from higher decks as if from a wall. Arrows wrapped in "burning-oil", tow, sulphur, and bitumen are implanted burning by catapults in the bellies of hostile ships, and soon set light to the planking payed with wax, pitch, and resin- so much kindling for fires. Some are slain by steel and stones, others are forced to burn to death in the water. Among so many forms of death the bitterest fate is that the bodies are left unburied to be eaten by fish."<br>
"Ch 46... three types of weapon contribute most towards victory- beams, drags, and battle-axes.The "beam" is the name for a thin, long shaft like a yard-arm, which hangs from the mast and has an iron head at both ends...they violently drive this instead of a battering ram. The "drag" (falx) is the term for a very sharp iron blade curved like a sickle and mounted on long poles. It quickly cuts the rigging from which the yard-arm is suspended, and the sails collapse rendering the warship slow and useless. The "battle-axe" (bipennis=double axe) is an axe which has on both sides a broad and very sharp iron blade. By means of these, in the midst of battle very skilled sailors or marines in small skiffs secretly cut the cables binding the adversaries' steering gear. Once this is done, the ship is captured immediately, being disarmed and disabled. For what escape is left for him who has lost his rudder?"<br>
<br>
To me, this sounds like an eye-witness account- for example, weapons such as weighted darts were very much a Late Roman weapon. It also would necessitate separate specialist training for troops who were to fight on sea. So, marines existed in the early Roman period- they seem to have existed in the Late Roman period. The balance of probability points strongly to them having existed between these dates.<br>
<br>
Hope this is helpful. Jasper- who is the audience for your paper?<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
<br>
Paulus <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=paulusbrittanicus>Paulus Brittanicus</A> at: 12/18/04 8:33 pm<br></i>
