North British Warrior

[Robert Vermaat]

Especially if that soft southern dux bellorum had any name other than Vortigen, right? :wink:

Vortigen? Who's that? :twisted: Sounds familiar, but not quite what I had in mind. :wink:

[Ron Andrea]

Well, at least we know Vortigern's name. Oh. No, we don't, do we? :oops:

We have only one primary source and all we can be sure it from he wrote was that he had an axe to grind. And grind it, he did.

This is sooooo frustrating.

[Robert Vermaat]

Well, at least we know Vortigern's name. Oh. No, we don't, do we? :oops: .

Oh yes we do. Beyond doubt.

[Ron Andrea]

What was his name? I've always read that Voritgern was his title, like "high king" (but not). :?:

[Robert Vermaat]

Vortigern was his name. maybe not his given name, but it's not a title of sorts. Sure, it has a meaning, but we know of at least 8 other Vortigerns, all common people.

My theory is that his given name was Vitalinus, and that he took the the name Vortigern upon accession. Like Augustus. Or Stalin.

[Medicus matt]

Sure, it has a meaning, .

That drives me mad, when people say "Oh Vortigern/Vortipor/Hengist/Horsa can't have been an actual name, it can't be because it means xyz"...

ALL NAMES MEAN SOMETHING!

<Slaps forehead repeatedly with hand>

[Conal]

ALL NAMES MEAN SOMETHING!

Wendy doesn't :roll:

My own name means "High", "Mighty", "Strong Wolf" or just plain very powerful. I was a big baby!!!

[Medicus matt]

ALL NAMES MEAN SOMETHING!

Wendy doesn't :roll:

Yes it does. It's either derived from Gwendydd (white/fair day) or Gwendolyn (white/fair....something). Contrary to popular belief it does appear (albeit rarely) as a name before JM Barrie used it in Peter Pan.

One of those things I've looked at in the past, as my gandmother-in-law is one of the women credited with making it a popular girls name in the early 20th century.

Mine means 'Gift from Jehova'....which must have come as a dreadful disappointment to any believers out there.

[Robert Vermaat]

Sure, it has a meaning, .

That drives me mad, when people say "Oh Vortigern/Vortipor/Hengist/Horsa can't have been an actual name, it can't be because it means xyz"...
ALL NAMES MEAN SOMETHING!
<Slaps forehead repeatedly with hand>

Stop hitting yourself Matt, you were a tad hasty chastizing your poor head.

I never said anything of the sort, it was a reply about a comment about Vortigern being a title, which I am of the opinion that it is not.
Of course each name has a meaning, but in this case I was thinking of the 'title'like' meaning that so often leads people to conclude that Vortigern was a title. Add a title and you can multiply - one Vortigern becomes two, one Ambrosius becomes a Druid-like 'Emrys' class with many members, Arthur becomes one of a whole herd...

OK, OK, I got carried away there.
I was referring to the 'political' meaning of the name Vortigern. I referred to Augustus and Stalin for a reason, neither were given names but taken when the individual became powerful. Atatürk is another one, or Dzengiz Khan. Political names, but no pure titles.

Hengist was the name of a normal person. I share your view about people who see Hengist as something legendary or godlike - as if Saxons never used animals in personal names. Wulf comes to mind.. or Swine.. or the famous king Elephant. :twisted:

Vortipor was also a personal name, not a title. Interestingly, it's almost the same as Vortimer, both are renedered Gwrthefyr in Middle Welsh. Neither are titles.

[Alanus]

Hey, Matt

What about Peter Pan? :lol:

My own last name means "wry-mouth" or "crooked-mouth." As for the "Alanus" part?-- I'm not sure of the Celtic context. I think it was a roebuck, the same way that old guy was called Horsa.

[Medicus matt]

I never said anything of the sort, it was a reply about a comment about Vortigern being a title, which I am of the opinion that it is not.

Oh, I know that YOU know...I wasn't talking about you.

[Ron Andrea]

As usual, Robert's right.

Been doing research elsewhere, not only do my sources support Robert's assertion that Vortigern was Vortigern's name (allowing for the variations of time and language :roll: ), but that--assuming he really existed--he suffered a "bad press" with succeeding historians trying to outdo one another in condemning him, his lifestyle, and his supposed role in the fall of sub-Roman Britain to the Anglo-Saxons.

[Medicus matt]

As usual, Robert's right.

Been doing research elsewhere, not only do my sources support Robert's assertion that Vortigern was Vortigern's name (allowing for the variations of time and language :roll: ), but that--assuming he really existed--he suffered a "bad press" with succeeding historians trying to outdo one another in condemning him, his lifestyle, and his supposed role in the fall of sub-Roman Britain to the Anglo-Saxons.

Don't get too caried away and start making any 'factual' claims there Ron. Like pretty much everything to do with the Matter of Britain there are very few facts, merely an awful lot of suposition, conjecture and theory.

'Your' sources....you've got your own? hock:
Where did you buy your time machine ...or have you been conducting seances? :wink:

[Robert Vermaat]

Oh, I know that YOU know...I wasn't talking about you.

Well, you were quoting me, so... :wink: I hope your head doesn't hurt.

As usual, Robert's right.

Don't get too caried away and start making any 'factual' claims there Ron.

I completely agree with Ron. Facts are facts, hee hee.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

ALL NAMES MEAN SOMETHING!

Wendy doesn't :roll:

Yes it does. It's either derived from Gwendydd (white/fair day) or Gwendolyn (white/fair....something). Contrary to popular belief it does appear (albeit rarely) as a name before JM Barrie used it in Peter Pan.

One of those things I've looked at in the past, as my gandmother-in-law is one of the women credited with making it a popular girls name in the early 20th century.

And there I was thinking it was a square burger fast food chain!! :o roll: :mrgreen: