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North British Warrior
#1
Hope this is not to OT but any idea of what the 5th or 6th cavalry warrior from North Brition would have equipment wise.
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#2
http://www.durolitum.co.uk/

Like this !!
Conal Moran

Do or do not, there is no try!
Yoda
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#3
Thank you for the link maybe a bit early, but they do have nice kit, I don't know if they are still going.
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#4
They're still going very strong!
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#5
Hi Dave,

My group Letavia is doing late Vth century re-enactment of Briton/Breton warriors. We are actually infantry, yet Im thinking about doing a horsman one day.

There isn't a lot of information available about how Britons looked in the VIth century, but it can be guessed thanks to the influences of their neighbors, of the Romans, etc.

A Brythonic horseman would have been likely to weild a round shield and several javelins to pepper the ennemy. A wealthy warrior may have been able to buy a spangenhelm, a spatha and lorica hamata or squamata. Some think that they still sometimes charge as did the cataphracts with the great lance of sarmatian origin, the contus.
"O niurt Ambrois ri Frangc ocus Brethan Letha."
"By the strenght of Ambrosius, king of the Franks and the Armorican Bretons."
Lebor Bretnach, Irish manuscript of the Historia Brittonum.
[Image: 955d308995.jpg]
Agraes / Morcant map Conmail / Benjamin Franckaert
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#6
Hi Agraes

I did read that the North British Kingdoms were using their skill with horses learned from Roman cavalrymen to fight the Saxon/Germanic tribes. Giving them a slight advantage over larger enemy bodies.
What references do you have for your equipment if you don't mind me asking.
I know that the British Kingdoms had trade with the eastern empire from finds in Wales this might have allowed them access to late roman weapons as you say.
As you say it is hard finding hard evidence since there has been no swords found and very little equipment.

Dave
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#7
Most evidence come from Late Roman (Vth century) and Irish sources. There was a great deal of gaelic influence in Western Britain. To some extent Byzantine influence as you say.

Actually the Britons of this time are the heirs of the Roman power, even if they are of celtic brythonic culture and language. They are still sometimes referenced as "Romans" in texts.
"O niurt Ambrois ri Frangc ocus Brethan Letha."
"By the strenght of Ambrosius, king of the Franks and the Armorican Bretons."
Lebor Bretnach, Irish manuscript of the Historia Brittonum.
[Image: 955d308995.jpg]
Agraes / Morcant map Conmail / Benjamin Franckaert
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#8
Gents,

During the 5th c. I would accept that local powers in the North would be either direct decendants of soldiers who stayed on to fight for strong men who took over from the Romans. These could have been Roman soldiers, now fighting for themselves.

Or, new strong men moved in where Roman power had vanished, to take over the forts.

However, all that is based on assumption and sparse signs that some military installations were used by unknown later occupants. Only very seldom we see that some elite settlement existed in a fort.

No sources, Roman nor Irish, give any hard information about who these later 5th c. occcupants really were. Pedigrees claim descent from Rome, but then they all do that. Weaopons of course show Roman influences, but then that's also logical, Roman cuklture, civilians as well as military, continued to be the dominant factor for some time to come - it did not vanish overnight. Simplistic views that have the British have a sigh of relief, drop their togas, grow moustaches and don striped trousers as soon as the Romans supposedly sail forth, are based on Romantic nonsense. :wink:
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
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#9
I agree with you Robert. So, what's the issue? :roll: :wink:

For me the Brythonic culture simply survived under Roman rule, especially in the North and in the Western fringes, and it became more and more prevalent when the Roman influence slowly vanished in the following centuries. Yet some people are still thinking the Britons thought "Come on, the Romans are gone, let's took back a celtic culture!".
"O niurt Ambrois ri Frangc ocus Brethan Letha."
"By the strenght of Ambrosius, king of the Franks and the Armorican Bretons."
Lebor Bretnach, Irish manuscript of the Historia Brittonum.
[Image: 955d308995.jpg]
Agraes / Morcant map Conmail / Benjamin Franckaert
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#10
Quote:I agree with you Robert. So, what's the issue? :roll: :wink:

Oh, I feared you were overstating the situation a bit. I mean, we have VERY few sources to ourselves on.

Also, I'm almost sure that cataphracts were never seen in late 5th c. Britain... Far too expensive.
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
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#11
Ironically there is nearly more sources about Vth and VIth century continental Britons than about insular ones.

Im not keen on Brythonic cataphracts either. Maybe horsemen using contus, but no more. And that's a big maybe!
"O niurt Ambrois ri Frangc ocus Brethan Letha."
"By the strenght of Ambrosius, king of the Franks and the Armorican Bretons."
Lebor Bretnach, Irish manuscript of the Historia Brittonum.
[Image: 955d308995.jpg]
Agraes / Morcant map Conmail / Benjamin Franckaert
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#12
http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?t=41750

link to the Beowolf film armourers sight.
Conal Moran

Do or do not, there is no try!
Yoda
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#13
The cover art by Angus McBride of Osprey Publishing's "Arthur and the Anglo-Saxon Wars" proports to illustrate how sixth century Romano-British warriors may have equipped themselves.

www.biblio.com/books/70890117.html


That help?
"Fugit irreparabile tempus" (Irrecoverable time glides away) Virgil

Ron Andrea
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#14
I just got An Age of Tyrants by Christopher Snyder. Browsing the pages I found the (small) chapter dedicated to the military, and there is two things that intrigues me a lot:


First one is about the use of chariots:
Quote:The kings of Gildas's own day "wage(d) war, civil and unjust," with their commanipulares, rode chariots (currus), and fought with arma speciales.

My opinion is that is only a litteral metaphor taken too seriously by the author, but there is also this:

Quote:[...] and at Dynas Emrys excavators found three Donside terrets, rein rings, from a chariot.
With note 100: Campbell, "Dinas Emrys", 54-57



Second one is about a graffito at Tintagel:
Quote:At Tintagel, a graffito etched onto slate depicts a sub-Roman warrior with sword, shield, spear, helmet, and what appears to be a whip.
Note 102: See Thomas, Tintagel, and Dark, Discovery by Design, fig. 2.

This one interest me a lot, anyone got a drawing or a picture of it, perhaps with more details?
"O niurt Ambrois ri Frangc ocus Brethan Letha."
"By the strenght of Ambrosius, king of the Franks and the Armorican Bretons."
Lebor Bretnach, Irish manuscript of the Historia Brittonum.
[Image: 955d308995.jpg]
Agraes / Morcant map Conmail / Benjamin Franckaert
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#15
Good morning Agraes from a Cornishman up in Yorkshire. My father spends half the year living in Carhaix, and I have fond memories of Brest.

I suspect very little of what Conal posted would be found on a warrior from northern Britain in the late 5th/6th century.

I would stick to simple woolen tunic over short trousers/under clothing, small shield, maybe a fighting/hunting knife, javelins, and a spear. You could use the same with greater effect on a small pony. If you are interpreting a member of the elite then mail and a period sword are possible. I really have little idea which helmet to chose. Interpretations should stick to archaeological finds. Roman ridge helms in Britain by this time would be a very good age indeed. Beyond that I can't imagine. Certainly I would stay away from un-provenanced spagenhelms.
John Conyard

York

A member of Comitatus Late Roman
Reconstruction Group

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.comitatus.net">http://www.comitatus.net
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.historicalinterpretations.net">http://www.historicalinterpretations.net
<a class="postlink" href="http://lateantiquearchaeology.wordpress.com">http://lateantiquearchaeology.wordpress.com
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