Buttonholes in paenula?

[sulla felix]

Very nice and very colourful (which is what made me think that they may have been later Roman - how wrong could I be!).

[Crispvs]

"1st-2nd century"

Don't forget that that is a very general term covering around two hundred years. To my eyes they look a bit later than the mid first century period mosty of us depict but things like this are definitely not my area of specialisation.

I agree with your comment about needing to reinforce the bottom of the sewn together portion. Mine has pulled apart at the bottom twice over the past three years necessitating repair.

Crispvs

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Mine has the simple 2 round, 2 bar, as mentioned by Graham. Kept me plenty warm

[Caballo]

Crispus,

Thanks- re the dating, it might be useful to also look at the Camomile soldier date?

I've got hold of an abstract of an article on him- and am trying to get hold of the complete version- written by Mike Bishop.

"Abstract: The Camomile Street soldier reconsidered

M C Bishop
A Roman soldier’s tombstone was found reused as hardcore in the foundations of a bastion added to the city wall in the second half of the 4th century AD. The main part, representing the near life-size figure of the soldier, is on display in the Museum of London, but an arched canopy and other fragments from the same or nearby sites (not on display) are likely to have been components of the same monument. In this paper, therefore, a reconstruction is attempted of the monument as a whole.

The figure survives to a height of 1.32m. He wears a military cloak over a tunic, the right-hand side of the cloak being thrown back over his right shoulder to display the classic Roman short sword (gladius). Around his neck is a scarf, whilst a studded strap hangs from his waist, terminating in a lunate pendant. He holds a scroll in his left hand, as well as several writing-tablets apparently suspended from a cord.

Because of its realism and attention to detail, the relief provides important information about dress and military equipment. The forms of the tunic and sword suggest that the figure cannot have been carved before the Flavian period (c AD 70-100), whereas the style of the monument as a whole belongs to an earlier (c AD 40-70) tradition of military and funerary art. It may, therefore, have been commissioned by a patron with antiquarian interests. The presence of writing tablets suggests that the soldier had administrative duties, possibly as a beneficiarius consularis on the governor’s staff in London. When the tombstone was dismantled for use in the foundations of the bastion, it was buried with the head between the legs, reflecting a contemporary burial rite which is today something of a mystery.

[Transactions 34 (1983), pp 31 – 48; abstract by Francis Grew, 02-Jan-1998]

This would put the round button and loop very much into our period. I too am not an expert here though! (Though certainly colourful enamelling pre-dates the Romans, I believe?)

Cheers

Caballo

[John Conyard]

I agree that hemming the wool gives it a certain stiffness, but I suspect that the selvage edge of the material was used, for ease of manufacture and strength.

[Tarbicus]

If belt plates and pugio sheaths had inlaid enamel, why wouldn't buttons? For an earlier period I'd personally suggest niello, and argue the case until I turned blue :wink:

[Maximio]

If belt plates and pugio sheaths had inlaid enamel, why wouldn't buttons? For an earlier period I'd personally suggest niello, and argue the case until I turned blue :wink:

Tarbicus Really! Turn Blue and you a self respecting Scouser. You should fall on your sword for even suggesting such a thought.


On fasteners, my old Paenula had three antler horn toggles which I positioned over by about an inch from the edge. In order for the loops to go over they drew the edges into an over lap and as each toggle mount (and loop mount) had been braced with stiffish leather I can't remember too much of a problem with a gap forming. Unfortunatley I lent the cloak to a Tiro on his first event and the bugger went and nicked it never returning the second day of the show. There again he also nicked someones spare helmet and a unit sword.

Now I wear a Sagum and don't lend it to anyone.

[sulla felix]

If belt plates and pugio sheaths had inlaid enamel, why wouldn't buttons? For an earlier period I'd personally suggest niello, and argue the case until I turned blue

That is a good point Tarbicus. I am still trying to come to terms with just how much colour/bling the Romans used in the 1st CenturyBC/AD.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

If belt plates and pugio sheaths had inlaid enamel, why wouldn't buttons? For an earlier period I'd personally suggest niello, and argue the case until I turned blue :wink:

Tarbicus Really! Turn Blue and you a self respecting Scouser. You should fall on your sword for even suggesting such a thought.


On fasteners, my old Paenula had three antler horn toggles which I positioned over by about an inch from the edge. In order for the loops to go over they drew the edges into an over lap and as each toggle mount (and loop mount) had been braced with stiffish leather I can't remember too much of a problem with a gap forming. Unfortunatley I lent the cloak to a Tiro on his first event and the bugger went and nicked it never returning the second day of the show. There again he also nicked someones spare helmet and a unit sword.

Now I wear a Sagum and don't lend it to anyone.

Recently?

[Crispvs]

Be carefull not to mix up what we might call sub-periods. It makes a lot of sense to try and date things in 25 - 40 year periods, rather than centuries, which are rather too long for accuracy. Twenty five years is the standard division (so I am led to believe) in pottery dating and I tend to think it works quite well for the appearance of soldiers too. Obviously, some things do not survive as a sufficiently large sample to produce anything more than vague dating but other things survive in large enough numbers that we can risk being more precise.

It is true that dagger sheaths from mid first century AD contexts do commonly feature enamel inlay. However that does not appear to be the case with sword scabbards, which featured openwork designs at the time. Neither does it appear to be the case with belt plates. Although niello (along with similar looking substances) was heavily used to inlay plates in the middle 50 years of the first century AD, it appears to have been largely superceded by coloured enamel in the last quarter of the first century AD, which sites with Flavian foundation dates featuring very few niello inlaid plates but many more openwork or enamelled plates. Most First century AD re-enactors, despite what may often be stated, actually appear to be portraying the army somewhere between the reign of Caligula and the reign of Nero - a period of little more than thirty years. After this point the archaeology of sites seems to start to tell a different story of the soldier's equipment. Obviously equipment was recycled as long as it was useful, but that may not have applied to belt styles, which seem to have been more subject to fashion than anything esle we find.


Crispvs

[Caballo]

Thanks , frater Crispus. One day it would be great to put together the shifting pattern of Roman fashion- maybe in 25 year chunks as you suggest?

In addition to the other examples of enamelled military kit, some 1st century brooches were certainly enamelled- for example this dragonesque brooch from the Met.
http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/gaul/ho_1980.450.htm
or this one from Saffron Waldron


Nodge's comments (always well worth listening to) on the button and loop used in the paenula above was that "The fastener is a J.P.Wild Class V, type b. Probably a product of the northern school of enamellers. Possibly/probably developed in the 1stC and manufactured into the 2nd. There seems to be no evidence for manufacture after the 2ndC. The fasteners are strongly linked to military sites."

So- more colour in the first century Roman army kit than usually depicted???

Cheers

Caballo