How to make punched maille

[brennivs - tony drake]

There is also a big section of bronze mail with scales on from Newstead, a a small section of fine mail from Lunt,Ouddorp Holland mail with scale, Mainz posible sleeve .Due to the material, Bronze would more Likely end up in the melting pot and recycled as scrap rather than been deposited ,hence probably the lack of finds
Regards Brennivs

[martijn.wijnhoven]

There is also a big section of bronze mail with scales on from Newstead, a a small section of fine mail from Lunt,Ouddorp Holland mail with scale, Mainz posible sleeve .Due to the material, Bronze would more Likely end up in the melting pot and recycled as scrap rather than been deposited ,hence probably the lack of finds
Regards Brennivs

The Newstead and Ouddorp specimens are a mix of mail backing made out of copper alloy with scales attached (often called lorica plumata). I already mentioned these in an earlier reply:

I can't think of any evidence that any Roman mail was made of copper alloy - decoration yes but not whole shirts. The only one's I'm aware of are some Persian examples dating to c.6th C AD

I agree. The exception seems to be the lorica plumata (meaning here the hybrid form of armour which combined mail with scale). Most plumatae were made out of an copper-alloy mail backing with alternating rows of small riveted and small punched rings (a specimen found at Usk is an exception as it was made from iron).

The Mainz piece sounds very interesting, do you have any more information on it? Does it concern a decorative piece or a whole sleeve?

Best wishes,

Martijn

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Where are the Newstead examples on display, Brennius?

[martijn.wijnhoven]

Here you can find more information on the specimen from Newstead and where it is located:

http://nms.scran.ac.uk/database/record. ... 9n3g0cbpi6

Best wishes,

Martijn

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

It says the mail was attached to scales like those on lorica segmentata? :?

[brennivs - tony drake]

Gaivs it is a miss print it should say squamata doh :!:
Martijn it is mentioned by Russell Robinson a section that looked to be purpose made possibly for a sleeve it wasnt damaged.
Regards Brennivs

[Taoye]

I think the fact that copper-alloy mail was so easy to melt down and recycle means we're going to have a hard time trying to prove whether it was widely used or not. (and by widely used, I simply mean more than just one or two custom jobs for rich folk)

I for one am having a hell of a time finding punched bronze rings. So far the best I've found are two places who'll custom make them... enough for a shirt at $1,000 or $2,500. Uh oh.... I better hide the checkbook.

-Chris

[martijn.wijnhoven]

Chris,

How about making solid copper alloy rings yourself?

Cheers,

Martijn

[brennivs - tony drake]

Chris if you can source bronze wire it is easy to make you own rings hock: yes its time consuming but very relaxing to make
Regards Brennivs

[Taoye]

Well, I've got bronze butted rings for really good prices, but I can't for the life of me find solid rings.

Perhaps the best I can do is hammer them into a relatively flat shape? Hahaha...

I was thinking alternating butted and solid rings would look better than just all butted, but I'm not sure what to do and my budget doesn't go that high.

Hmmmm....

[Marcus Julius]

I'd have to agree with Hibernicus. I've made a few using a Whitney hand punch, by punching a disc out of a sheet, and then punching that disc again with a smaller punch.

I haven't convinced myself to sit down and punch out enough to make a Hamata yet - it's on my very long list of projects

[Marcus Julius]

it was also used to put geometric patterns on the shirt as a contrast to the iron mail

Ooh! references, please. I had been told that doing inlays of different metal types was a modern invention. I once made a hauberk of steel with a cross over the chest in brass.

[martijn.wijnhoven]

it was also used to put geometric patterns on the shirt as a contrast to the iron mail

Ooh! references, please. I had been told that doing inlays of different metal types was a modern invention. I once made a hauberk of steel with a cross over the chest in brass.

Simon James in his book Excavations at Dura-Europos 1928-1937. Final Report VII. The Arms and Armour and other Military Equipment mentions a mail shirt with an inlay shaped in the form of a trident (pp. 116-7).

This shirt was found on the body of the so-called Persian warrior in the Tower 19 countermine. The shirt seems to be of the simple "pullover" pattern, and probably reached to the top of the thights.

Although oxidated, the lower rear edge can be traced and is trimmed with three rows of copper alloy rings. The skirt had a split up each side measuring more or less 105 mm.

The neck aperture appears to have been a simple slit in the mail, and was also trimmed with three rows of copper alloy rings.

On the upper chest, just below the neck is a pattern of copper alloy rings in the shape of a trident. This device seems to be similar to those seen on depictions of early Sasanian warriors.

It thus appears likely that the shirt was not of Roman provenance, but nonetheless might be a nice reference.

Greetings,

Martijn

[brennivs - tony drake]

Thanks Martijn for those D
Chris if your rings are a little bit larger you could over lap then rivet unless you are going to just use butted and solid ring.
Regards Brennivs

[Taoye]

That's pretty cool... it seems natural that they would weave designs into the mail but a historical/archaeological reference is pretty cool.

My rings are 5mm inner diameter, 18ga bronze. Guess it's going to be all-butted... my next project in a year or two when I get the proper tools and such will be riveted. All in good time.