How to make punched maille

[le Cavalier Invisible]

Hello to all!
There are several topics about punched/riveted maille, but I can't see anything about how to make punched rings in, let's say, your own barn.. Or is it just me missing the point..? :roll:

greetings,

[Hibernicus]

One method:

Punch out discs with a tube punch.. faster when the metal is annealed!

Punch out the center of the small disc with a tool like this:

http://www.siska.com/gsk_2.gif

You might be ableto moidify one for smal eyelets or make one.

Foot operated: http://www.eyelets.co.uk/images/fp1a.jpg

[Lucius Poblius]

When I was researching this I found a number of punching tools like this one http://www.siska.com/gsk_2.gif however they all struggeled with anything thicker than 0.8mm MS. Let me know if you find any better than that because I'd be interested myself!

The only other interesting hand punches I found were the Whitney type: http://www.knighton-tools.co.uk/acatalo ... hines.html
There are several on ebay. The disadvantages with this are that the punches are fixed sizes, and to make a ring you'll have to punch twice (outside edge and then inside edge) making it hard to get the same thickness all around the ring. Although I guess after the first 10,000 or so you'd get good at it

After that type of tool, you start getting things you have to clamp to a bench and the price skyrockets!

If it interests you, there is some speculation in this document http://home.armourarchive.org/members/a ... %e4rvi.pdf
about the punches actually used, and how the rings were rounded. However, as far as I'm aware no roman ring making tools have ever been found.

In the end I think it's a lot more time/cost efficient to order them machine punched even if this isn't as authentic as we'd like. You can still make the riveted rings yourself with a lot of wire, a mandrel and modified pliers.

[Julius]

Where can one punched rings? I know of www.theringlord.com but They don't have much in the way of mild steel.

[Julius]

I'd be very interested because I've had to weld and flatten my own rings to make 'punched rings'. This takes about twice as long as it takes to weave a ring.

[Marcus Mummius]

I'd be very interested because I've had to weld and flatten my own rings to make 'punched rings'. This takes about twice as long as it takes to weave a ring.

Salve Julius,

Check with some of the guys who are selling alternating punched/rivetted hamata's. They might get punched rings for you from their dealers.

For someone in the US Keltica Iron age Village comes to my mind, or Imperium Ancient Armory:

http://www.imperiumancientarmory.com/

http://www.kelticaironagevillage.com/daniyal.html

Vale,

[zugislander]

Hello Benjamin,

Exactly how do you "weld and flatten my own rings to make 'punched rings'"? I have a supply of overlapped rings that I would LOVE to make into welded rings (flattened or otherwise). But I am very uncertain of how to proceed so they just sit in my basement collecting dust.

Cordially,

Michael

[Dan Howard]

There really isn't much to suggest that welding links closed was widely practised. It seems to have been done on occasion but punching was far far more prevalent in virtually all cultures who ever made mail armour.

It is difficult to hammer-weld mail links. The anvil sucks out the heat too quickly. The only practical way I've ever heard of was suggested by Steve Sheldon. The link is held in a pair of tongs and shoved into the furnace. The tongs are then squeezed to apply pressure and affect the weld while the link is being heated.

[martijn.wijnhoven]

I guess you mean with ´punched´ rings, ´solid´ rings. Within the study of mail there has been quite a lot of debate how solid rings were made.

Basically there are two opinions:
1) Punching the ring out of metal sheet. This involves two punching actions (one for the outer diameter of the ring; and one for the inner diameter of the ring).
2) Making the ring out of wire. An overlap would be created which would have been welded shut by striking the overlap while hot.

As Dan Howard wrote, the general consensus is that most solid rings were made by punching. Most likely, also considering that mail has been around for quite a long time and has been used in many places in the world, solid rings made through welding did occur. In this sense it is fairly difficult, if not impossible, to generalize mail because of its use through so many centuries and adopted by so many cultures. For the Roman Era it seems that punched rings were applied in the lorica hamata.

If you are interested I can provide you with a list of articles that debate the making of solid rings.

With kind regards,

Martijn

[Erik D. Schmid]

In the European region, punhced links seem to be the norm. Outside of Europe however, welded links were quite common. They are seen frequently in Middle Eastern mail as well as Indian. The welds are not perfect by any means, which causes the links to delaminate easily. Many fo these links were made by heating a coil of about two to three turns and then striking it. The well known "theta" links were made in this fashion.

[martijn.wijnhoven]

Because of the interest of various persons in a bibliographical list of articles concerning the study of making solid rings, I have decided to post this here instead of sending it through a PM.

The list is far from complete; nonetheless it was the best I could come up with in a matter of minutes. Some articles have the discussion of how solid rings were produced at their core; others just have a quick mention; and some only refer to the making of riveted rings. I also threw in an interesting article written in German for anybody that likes to know more about Roman mail in general.

With kind regards,

Martijn

Biek, L.
1963 Archaeology and the Microscope: the Scientific Examination of Archaeological Evidence. Lutterworth Press, London. (pages 162 and 163 show how punched rings could be made)

Bruce-Mitford, R.
1978 The Sutton Hoo Ship-Burial. Vol. 2 Arms, Armour and Regalia. The British Museum Press, London.

Burgess, E. M.
1953a Further Research into the Construction of Mail Garments. The Antiquaries Journal: Being the Journal of The Society of Antiquaries of London XXXIII:193-202. (about construction techniques for weaving mail)
—
1953b The Mail-Maker´s Technique. The Antiquaries Journal: Being the Journal of The Society of Antiquaries of London XXXIII:48-55. (how riveted rings could be made)
—
1960 A Reply to Cyril Stanley Smith on Mail Making Methods. Technology and Culture:151-155.

Cosson, B. C. A. and W. Burges
1880 Catalogue of the Exhibition of Ancient Helmets and Examples of Mail. The Archaeological Journal XXXVII:454-494. (contains a section on making mail rings)

Edge, D. B. A.
The Construction and Metallurgy of Mail Armour in the Wallace Collection. (can be found on the internet)

Jouttijärvi, A.
1996 The Manufacture of Chain-Mail. In Early Iron: Netvaerk for Tidlig Jernteknologi, edited by H. Lyngstrøm, pp. 53-60, Copenhagen.

O´Connor, S. A.
1992a Catalogue of Scandinavian Mail. In The Anglian Helmet from 16-22 Coppergate, edited by D. Tweddle, pp. 1183-1187. The Archaeology of York. vol. 17: The Small Finds, nr. 8, P. V. Addyman, general editor. Council for British Archaeology, London.

—
1992b Conservation of the Helmet and Mail. In The Anglian Helmet from 16-22 Coppergate, edited by D. Tweddle, pp. 907-935. The Archaeology of York. vol. 17: The Small Finds, nr. 8, P. V. Addyman, general editor. Council for British Archaeology, London.

—
1992c The Mail Curtain. In The Anglian Helmet from 16-22 Coppergate, edited by D. Tweddle, pp. 999-1011. The Archaeology of York. vol. 17: The Small Finds, nr. 8, P. V. Addyman, general editor. Council for British Archaeology, London.

O´Connor, S. A. and P. Gardner
1992 Technology and Dating of the Mail. In The Anglian Helmet from 16-22 Coppergate, edited by D. Tweddle, pp. 1057-1081. The Archaeology of York. vol. 17: The Small Finds, nr. 8, P. V. Addyman, general editor. Council for British Archaeology, London.

Sim, D.
1997 Roman Chain-Mail: Experiments to Reproduce the Techniques of Manufacture. Britannia Vol. XXVIII:359-371.

Smith, C. S.
1960a Methods of Making Chain Mail (14th to 18th Centuries): A Metallographic Note. Technology and Culture Vol. I(1, Winter 1959/60):60-67.
—
1960b A Reply to Mr. Martin Burgess on Mail-Making Methods. Technology and Culture Vol I (3, Summer): 289-291.

Tweddle, D.
1992 The Anglian Helmet from 16-22 Coppergate. The Archaeology of York 17: The Small Finds, nr. 8. Council for British Archaeology, London. (includes an analysis of the mail neck guard, and gives a reconstruction of the solid rings through welding, see O´Connor, S. A.)


Vike, V.
2000 Ring Weave: a Metallographical Analysis of Ring Mail Material at the Oldsaksamlingen in Oslo. Universitetet i Oslo, Det Historisk-filosofisk fakultet-IAKK, Avdeling for konserveringsstudier, Semesteroppgave.

Vilella, J. R.
1958 Examination of Mail Armour Links from the Metropolitan Museum of Art. United States Steel Corporation.

Waurick, G.
1982 Die römische Kettenrüstung von Weiler-la-Tour. Hémecht: Zeitschrift für Luxemburger Geschichte (Revue d´Histoire Luxembourgeoise) Vol. 34:111-30. (Although it does not address the issue of riveted or punched rings, it is a really interesting article for anybody who likes Roman mail).

Williams, A. R.
1980 The Manufacture of Mail in Medieval Europe: a Technical Note. Gladius: etudes sur les armes ancienne, l’armement, l’art militaire et la vie culturelle en orient et occident Tomo XV:105-134.

[Marcus Mummius]

Thanks Martijn!

[martijn.wijnhoven]

Jef,

You are welcome. I hope some other references will be added by others (which I am not familiar with). In the end I am always interested in any information on mail armour.

Greetings,

Martijn

[zugislander]

Does the metal employed matter in the process? I ask as I am going to make the mail out of brass, the overlapped rings are brass, and I have about 10,000 brass riveted rings. I wanted to buy a whitney punch to punch out the rings, and did so on Ebay. But the seller ripped me off and never sent the punch. I have gone through the whole line at Ebay, but it looks like nothing will come of it. I am leery of sinking more money into a punch when I already have the overlapped rings. So I was hoping that I could weld the overlapped, which is why I bought them in the first place, to provide the "solid" part of the shirt.

For whatever it is worth, I am not quite as "lupine" as this project may seem at first blush. The goal is to create a late Republic Roman Marine impression. The brass mail is based on B & C's mention of "Copper alloy" mail being found in the Tomb of the Scipio's and a couple of other places. Combined with my own inference that if such existed, it would work well for a marine due to the "working conditions."

Thanks for all of your input and considered opinions. And sorry for at least partially highjacking the thread.

Cordially,

Michael

[martijn.wijnhoven]

The well known "theta" links were made in this fashion.

There is a nice small article on the webpage of the Royal Armouries about the possible way of manufacturing "theta" links.

It states:
[quote]At high magnification weld lines could be seen on either side of the central bar, showing that the link had been formed by twisting a “wireâ€