How to make punched maille

[Dan Howard]

I can't remember where I read it but I was sure that some theta links were punched. Regarding other cultures, the few Middle Eastern examples of mail I've seen used punched links.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

The ones I saw were predominantly riveted. Mind you ,I was probably only paying attention to the rivetted ones.

[Nathan Beal]

Thanks Martijn, Laudes to you!

[Julius]

Exactly how do you "weld and flatten my own rings to make 'punched rings'"?

I use a welder. Once the rings cool down I then hammer them flat. One could make simmilar rings by using a concentrated heat source (mapp gas torch, fire brick chimney over a forge or furnace, etc.) and a pair of tongs to forge weld the rings and then hammer them flat.

I make my own solid rings for two reasons. One is that the rings have a cross section of about 3mm x 0.8mm which is thicker than most punched rings. Two is that I haven't ordered punched rings yet.



I know my rings aren't very representative of punched rings used by the Romans, which were, I believe, square in cross section. Mine aren't even close to being rectangular in cross section but they are very strong.

Once I get the punched rings I'll use them in stead of the above-mentioned rings.

[Julius]

I imagine that someone in the ol' Roman days could have made links like the ones I make but I don't think they did. For one it would probably be easier to punch them out of sheet metal and, two, all of the sources I've run across mention that the grain of the metal runs in straight lines, not following the shape of the rings. That means that there was no major reshaping of the metal after ring manufacture. Wire would cause the grain to follow the shape of the ring.

If the solid rings were wound and then welded the grain would look like this:
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[zugislander]

Thank you very much.

Cordially,

Michael

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Copper alloy would be an ideal metal for a marines armour! All the salt air would soon have your iron lorica corroding!

Tomb of the Scipio's? Where was this find?

[Dan Howard]

I can't think of any evidence that any Roman mail was made of copper alloy - decoration yes but not whole shirts. The only one's I'm aware of are some Persian examples dating to c.6th C AD

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

I am guessing the reference to Scipios tomb was refering to a copperalloy mail find? :? roll: :?:

[brennivs - tony drake]

Dan there is a lot of examples of bronze mail from in Brittania as well as other provinces, it was also used to put geometric patterns on the shirt as a contrast to the iron mail
Regards Brennivs

[martijn.wijnhoven]

I can't think of any evidence that any Roman mail was made of copper alloy - decoration yes but not whole shirts. The only one's I'm aware of are some Persian examples dating to c.6th C AD

I agree. The exception seems to be the lorica plumata (meaning here the hybrid form of armour which combined mail with scale). Most plumatae were made out of an copper-alloy mail backing with alternating rows of small riveted and small punched rings (a specimen found at Usk is an exception as it was made from iron).

Greetings,

Martijn

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Gladii at Dawn is it?

[zugislander]

Byron, Tony, Dan, and Martijn,

I simply go by what the high regard books state. In the Second Edition of Roman Military Equipment B & C state on page 63

"Fragments of what might have been copper-alloy mail were recovered from Renieblas, but since mail is so rarely deposited in the archelogical record, it is not surprising that we do not have much surviving from the Republic. Otherpieces were reported to have been found in the tomb of the Scipios in Rome."

Later on page 170 they refer to more copper-alloy mail being found at Grosskrotzenburg from the third century A.D., even distinguishing between copper-alloy mail (Grosskrotzenburg) and copper-alloy scale (Straubing).

I agree it makes perfect sense for Marines, and thus intend to make a suit once my youngest outgrows the alarming tendency to eat small objects (both rivets and rings count in this instance). hock:

Cordially,

Michael

[martijn.wijnhoven]

"Fragments of what might have been copper-alloy mail were recovered from Renieblas, but since mail is so rarely deposited in the archelogical record, it is not surprising that we do not have much surviving from the Republic. Otherpieces were reported to have been found in the tomb of the Scipios in Rome."

Mail made from copper alloy is indeed found, the question -however- is if those pieces found constitute a complete shirt. Or if they simply are (decorative) parts of a shirt mainly made out of iron.

If indeed there are references to a complete mail shirt (or other complete mail item) I am very interested to become acquainted with them. So, any bibliographical references will be great. Maybe Mr. Bishop or Erik D. Schmid can give us more information.

With kind regards,

Martijn

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

I, too, look forward to seeing more info.