Leather Cuirass Lorica Musculata, I used to think no way but

[AntonivsMarivsCongianocvs]

Salve,

I had picked up the 1/4 thick black leather for $27, I would have preferred red or white, as I've been told that black was the color of morning in Rome and a bit of a bad omen to wear in battle (I don't want my men to run away from me!) so.... the next step was to dye the cuirass white, it took 10 coats of white leather dye to cover the black but, it was worth it to have the armor a more authentic color.





Really need to purchase or fabricate gryphons for the right and left abdomen... I guess that will be the next step!

BTW: I did try white paint first on a scrap piece of the leather, it covered in one coat but... it cracked when bent. The test leather with the white dye did not crack.

[marsvigilia]

And everyone laughed at me when I suggested segmentatas painted white. :lol:

[AntonivsMarivsCongianocvs]

And everyone laughed at me when I suggested segmentatas painted white. :lol:

Salve Tony,

Although I have not read any references to the legionary painting their segmentatas and I’m not sure if traces of paint was found on the columns but… painting armor makes a great deal of sense… not only from a traditional “color is importantâ€

[Tarbicus]

Thing is, the colour representations we have of soldiers in armour tends to show them in iron or bronze. Look at the Santa Maria Maggiore mosaics and others.
http://www.cvrlab.org/humnet/resources/Mosaics.html
http://employees.oneonta.edu/farberas/a ... giore.html
http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic.php?t=15397
http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic. ... 039#113039
http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic. ... 278#107278

I don't dispute the white armour you've done here! The statue shows that, so at least makes the chances 50/50. But common soldier's armour is a leap of faith IMHO. Maybe symbols and decoration, as there was a long tradition before and after. A lot of medieval armour apparently lost its paint after Victorian curators polished them up to make them look right for display :roll: But there is a fair bit of reference in Roman source texts to soldiers burnishing their armour.

An interesting mosaic, just for the record:
http://www.classicalmosaics.com/images/warrior.jpg

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic.php?t=15759

For colour on statues, see this link!

[AntonivsMarivsCongianocvs]

Slave Byron,

I actually only read about the white cuirass with traces of red and blue, I never actually SAW the Augustus restore... wow!

I see also that there appear to be at least two rows of tongues on the lower sub armor, one red the other blue, with the fringe not gold but actually blue. The same on the arms... two colors with the fringe matching one of the colors... in this case blue.

Also, the embossing is painted too! Not just solid gold or solid silver as I would have imagined.

Very interesting! I have to re-think my painting scheme a bit, I still think I'll go with the red/white/gold motif but, the way I have to dye all the components is a bit different than I've seen before by others.... very interesting!!!

Awesome, thanks and THANKS again!





Here's a larger image too:
[url:2a1kkwkr]http://www.congiano.com/Extras/Recreation/Augustus_color_restored_800.jpg[/url]

[richard robinson]

I fully support this construction even though leather cuirasses are not popular on this forum. In 1984 i worked for a "history" show that toured schools and the Roma n officer i fough every day wore a leather cuirass.
I believe that cuirass was 10 years old at the time and retained its shape admirably and was kept on an armour stand when not in use. 8)
In 1987 I broke my shoulder and my best friend cut me out of hide similar to Tonys a cuirass that we shaped as an 7th century Hellenic cuirass. He cut it out with a swiss army pocket knife, including cutting stylised muscles and patterns into it. 8)
It was shaped with water and afterwards he used raven oil to colour it. We were both surprised when the cuirass dried that it was as hard as , well, hardened leather because we had planned on boiling it in a pot of wax.
Unfortunately the cuirass is several sizes too small for me now, :oops: but it certainly was capable of taking sturdy blows in the first 10 years of its existence.
I am cognizant that there are no specific examples or records extant for leather cuirasses, however i believe that part of reproducing stuff, experimental archaeology, is to EXPERIMENT.
Having alienated my wife from reenactment because of a phase i went through of being an authenticity nazi i fully recognise now that
"There Can Be Only Fun".
Enjoy,

Regardz

Richard R

[AntonivsMarivsCongianocvs]

This is what my cuirass looks like now... I made all the appliques but I still have to make the shoulder doublers and the sub armor.

This thread shows how I made the appliques:
link from old RAT

Putting the debate over leather, linen, brass or bronze aside for a moment... It was quite a struggle to make this appear as authentic as I could. No one seemed to make the Roman style gorgon head (with an eagle and ribbon under chin) I had the hardest time finding gryphons to flank a candelabra, and no where could I find a small appliqué of Lupa nursing Romulus & Remus… this undertaking was quite a bit more difficult that I thought it was going to be in the beginning.

[Tarbicus]

Just to add something to the mix on the subject of metal or non-metal. A Roman musculata from the 1st C. BC/AD has been found, and it's in the Christies Axel Guttmann catalogue.

"163. A Roman bronze muscled breastplate, 1st Century BC/AD, 18.5 in. (47 cm) high." page 159

It is NOT this:
http://www.legionsix.org/musclecuirass.jpg
http://www.legionsix.org/Real%20Gear.htm
but is far more crude in comparison, with bulbous pectorals.

[Dan Howard]

I have no problem with people making Roman reconstructions from leather. So long as they don't pretend that they are "historically accurate". If the goal is to have fun or to experiment with different materials then I'm all for it.

[AntonivsMarivsCongianocvs]

Salve,

I do respect you and your opinion however I am not pretending that leather is authentic, I am very much of the opinion that leather, linen, bronze and brass were all authentic. There is, at the absolute very least, compelling evidence that the Musculatas were made from different materials other then and including metal. Now, please if you disagree that’s beyond okay but, do please at least consider my 7 points below.

1. There is evidence that the Greeks wore a Lorica made of stiffened linen (Alexander Style) as well as a bronze Musculata cuirass; so why not the Romans?

2. An observation from feigelsonjulius [quote]“the words corselet is French and I believe
means "small or short leather". "Cors" of corselet seems to be
derived from "cours" which means leather. That's where we
get "cuirass" which is a leather "corselet.â€

[AntonivsMarivsCongianocvs]

6. On the Augustus Prima, the shoulder doubles appear to be metal with a typical barrel and pin hinge but, concerning the cuirass itself Travis Lee Clark notes [quote]“Unlike the barrel hinges that have a pin securing them, as on a regular door hinge, these are simply straps attaching the two pieces and they simply must be leather since the second from the bottom hinge bends right at the waistline.â€

[Magnus]

Sigh...basing conclusions on art alone though Anthony is like making an omelete but leaving out the eggs.

[Robert Vermaat]

4. This sculpture below shows a cuirass made from either linen or leather.

I would not classify that one as a cuirass, but as a subarmalis.

Sigh...basing conclusions on art alone though Anthony is like making an omelete but leaving out the eggs.

Not saying he's right, but it's not solely based on art. There sure is an egg in there somewhere. :wink:

[Tarbicus]

Also, note the fabric knot under the arm, it would be highly unusual to use a leather or fabric knot to tie together a metal cuirass.

It's how our cheek pieces are closed together.