When was the dagger vs the pugio used

[stevesarak]

Steve, the whole subject of how the legion merged with the enemy is a matter of debate even now, with plenty of theories. There's just as much reason to believe the caterpillar effect was normal - two opposing lines remaining at a safe distance, contact happening when someone or a small group decided to have a go and the rest followed. By no means is it restricted to the Republican army. The whole idea of a solid mass in perfect line smashing into another is a popular one, but questionable for the simple reason a battle line on the charge can't be maintained in good order anyway. Easier with the smaller groups, but as whole the entire army's front line, which could be made up of two or three legions, would be a very broken affair overall. The two sides would fight for a bit then withdraw, almost mutually agreed, is another theory, to regain their breath and rotate troops. There was actually a lot of formality in battle and recognised codes of conduct. The fact that a formal challenge of single combat could be made, and two men would fight to the death between the opposing armies, is an indication of this. Once they were finished it seems nobody from the losing side would interfere with the ritual mutilation and taking of spolia by the victor. There is even a reference in the primary sources to a 'civilised' way of doing battle.

Yes, most people stick to the idea that the legions acted like a machine, moving as one, they sometimes forgetting to take into account the human element.

The Republic was a seriously martial state, where there was no advancement in public life without at least a bunch of scars to prove you'd risked everything for the state.

Scars, at least frontal scars, certainly helped.

There were even laws forbidding the removal of spolia from a house's walls, even if the property exchanged hands.

I’ve never heard that. Do you have any links to reading material on it, I’d like to read more about it.

BTW, IIRC swimming as part of training I believe was a later addition.

I stand corrected.

[Tarbicus]

There were even laws forbidding the removal of spolia from a house's walls, even if the property exchanged hands.

I’ve never heard that. Do you have any links to reading material on it, I’d like to read more about it.

I read it last year, but it's mentioned in the Ancient Warfare article by Ross Cowan which you can now download as a PDF:
https://www.ancient-warfare.com/cms/ind ... &form_id=7

BTW, IIRC swimming as part of training I believe was a later addition.

I stand corrected.

Well, if you ever come up with anything to contradict it do post it. I actually can't remember the reference, and I just had a horrid thought it might have been from a novel. But I'm sure it's one of the more reputable authors if so, otherwise it wouldn't have stuck in my scatty mind :? Something to do with more drownings at Actium weren't from the weight of armour but because the men couldn't swim? Roma by Steven Saylor? If so, he has a whole load of primary references in his bibliography.