I’m sure this as been asked and answered before, I looked around but couldn’t find any thread on it, so any info or a link to it would be appreciated.
I’ve noticed a lot of 1st century daggers as well as pugios, did some legionary carry pugios and some carry daggers? As far as your basic kit, when was each used? Was the dagger carried as much as the pugio or do we even know?
What do we know about the daggers.
Thanks
Isn't a pugio a dagger
Quote:Isn't a pugio a dagger
Yes and no.
Yes but it's usually assoctated with the triple layered grip, not a single tange.
Quote:There are pugiones with a rod tang though...
Here are some links to discussions about the pugio, there was a very elaborate one some time back but I can't find it...
http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic. ... ight=pugio
http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic. ... ight=pugio
Thanks for the link. I read through them but couldn’t find any discussion about the single straight tang, I may have scanned to fast.
But that doesn’t mean anything, you may be right, the Pugio may have been built both ways.
Do you know of any links showing pictures of the grip of straight tanged Pugios or daggers or what ever they may have been called?
I'm thinking of picking an authentic, ancient 1st AD straight tanged Pugio ( or dagger ) and am looking for more info on it.
Thanks
It is also my understanding that a pugio IS a dagger.
Quote:It is also my understanding that a pugio IS a dagger.
Is a straight tang dagger a pugio?
Sorry,Steve, but I don't possess the knowledge to elaborate on this further. Crispus or Peroni are who you need to ask on this subject.
Quote:Gaivs Antonivs Satvrninvs:1wvlt94g Wrote:It is also my understanding that a pugio IS a dagger.
Is a straight tang dagger a pugio?
This is a bit like arguing whether
scutum='curved legionary shield' (it doesn't); and just as
scutum means 'shield' (any shield whatsoever), so
pugio means dagger (likewise...). There are certainly modern classifications imposed upon the types of dagger, but none of these do (or should) assume a spurious Latin terminology. Latin had a very limited vocabulary so some words serve many purposes, a bit like 'set' in English (the word with the longest entry in the OED, IIRC).
Mike Bishop
So…back to the original question, regardless of what it’s called, were both blades, strait tang and the tripple, used and carried the same, but just carried by different legionaries, if not, when was one used over the other?
Taking note at the top picture, were both blades types carried and used the same. if not, how were their function or purpose different?
Quote:So…back to the original question, regardless of what it’s called, were both blades, strait tang and the tripple, used and carried the same, but just carried by different legionaries, if not, when was one used over the other?
Taking note at the top picture, were both blades types carried and used the same. if not, how were their function or purpose different?
I think the simple answer there has to be 'we don't know' and, come to think of it, it is difficult to see how we
could know; the archaeological record is just too fickle and imprecise to allow such conclusions. Examples of both types come from legionary bases, so
might be legionary (but of course all legionary bases contained auxiliaries too, so that proves nothing...). All we can do is observe that there were differences, speculate about why they might be, and accept the limitations of our evidence.
Come to think of it, you could ask the same question of the later larger daggers - were they used in the same way as their earlier counterparts? We just don't know.
Quote:What do we know about the daggers.
Sadly, much the same as
what we know about brontosauruses ;-) ...and
we're even supposed to call those Apatosaurs these days.
Mike Bishop
How about this one? The text says it's Spanish, pre-Roman and that the first ones were introduced from the 4th c. BC onwards.
Thanks everyone for all the input.
Does anyone know what the grip of the strait tanged dagger looked like?
Just like the earlier full-tanged one, as far as we can tell. Except that you wouldn't see the edges of the tang showing between the wood layers. You'd simply have 2 or 3 wooden parts drilled to fit over the tang, and covered by the metal plates. Apparently. Probably. Hopefully.
Matthew
Quote:Just like the earlier full-tanged one, as far as we can tell. Except that you wouldn't see the edges of the tang showing between the wood layers. You'd simply have 2 or 3 wooden parts drilled to fit over the tang, and covered by the metal plates. Apparently. Probably. Hopefully.
Matthew
Thanks, things just fell into place. That would explain why some pugio’s have rivets holding the grip together in the center and some have them to the side, they’re to either side of the tang.
And, since they all had the same basic grip, then they could all be called a pugio without any question.