Complete sword ban proposed in UK - UK residents only

[Graham Sumner]

"Detective Chief Superintendent Carnochan stated in evidence ...that:
“in 2004-05 there has been only one murder involving a sword. That is one too many, but we must put the situation in context. There have been four attempted murders and 23 serious assaults involving swords. Those are the crimes that have been reported ..."

Recent television campaigns in the UK have given the following statistics: 50 teenagers a week are killed by cars while nearly 250,000 people a year are killed or seriously injured as a result of drink driving. Yes the situation must be put in context.
Graham.

[Dan Howard]

Here is a copy of a letter I wrote to the relevant minister when the same thing was proposed in NSW. If I was writing it today, I would place more emphasis on the fact that swords are no longer weapons in today's society (i.e. no sword is made today with the intention of harming another person).

Dear Sir,

I am writing with concern for the proposed changes to NSW legislation in regards to sword ownership (as reported in the Herald Sun, 03/04/04).

My first concern is regarding compensation. My father has a significant collection of antique swords and bayonettes. When he had the collection evaluated the valuer estimated its total worth at around $100,000. Will he be awarded "market value" compensation for these? What measures will the government take to ensure that accurate valuations are made?

Secondly, there are many thousands of harmless replicas in the community. Many are cheap blades made of stainless steel designed to hang on the wall for decorative purposes. These so-called "samurai swords" are unable to hold an edge and liable to break even if simply swung through the air. Will the legislation affect these?

My third concern involves the definition of the word "sword". I have a friend who is involved in community theatre and regularly performs in Shakespearean plays. His company uses blunt stage weapons for mock combats. These objects have nothing more in common with a genuine sword than a bar of steel. Will these be affected by the legislation?

My fourth concern involves registration fees. In the above situation, the theatre company usually breaks one or two swords per month and regularly purchases replacements. Would this company be required to pay a registration fee for each weapon purchased? How would a non-profit organisation be expected to afford this?

Fifth, I am an historian who concentrates on researching weaponry and armour of various periods. I use this research to supplement my income with published articles and am in the process of writing a monograph. In addition to my personal collection of swords and armour I often borrow items from other collectors in order to study them. This research is also used to construct accurate historical reconstructions so that further study may be undertaken. How would the proposed legislation affect my livelihood?

Sixth. My family owns a large area of bushland in the Gloucester Tops region. In order to facilitate movement through some areas of this property it is essential for one to carry a machete. Will machetes be banned under the proposed legislation? If so, what alternative would the minister suggest for the controlled clearing of undergrowth in areas that are inaccessable to vehicles?

Seventh, according the the Herald Sun, the minister said, "I'm concerned about any weapon that can be sold out of car boots, at markets or shops." If this is true then why does the proposed legislation only cover swords? I assume that it will still be perfectly legal to purchase other weapons including axes, hachets, bill hooks, butchers cleavers, etc.

Eighth, the minister also implied that the weapons to be banned in the proposed legislation are used in violent crimes. Could the minister please provide evidence demonstrating that antiques, highland dancing swords, Olympic fencing swords, and theatre props have been used in these alleged crimes?

I understand the State Government's concern that swords could be used inappropriately, but there are tens of thousands of law-abiding people in the community who use and own swords. I fail to understand how banning these swords, and in doing so, a multitude of lawful and constructive activities will do anything to address your concern

[Craig Gascoigne]

Tarbicus

We had similar proposal in Australia a couple years ago in one of the states. What we did was nationally united with all the martial arts,highland dancers, Public play groups and re-enactment groups and put a preposal together to all the local MPs. When they saw how many voters it effected they engaged in dialogue and we managed to get a club exemptation card process in place.

My suggestion is seek out all like minded groups that will be affected and unite and put a proposal to them. Politican hate nothing more than interest groups with logical and explained responses,it mean they may have to explain their position.

[Anonymous]

I have already responded to the proposal for legislation in Scotland, since I have often participated in re-enactments there. I haven't been able to find any mention of proposed legislation for England on this thread; is there any, or not?

[A_Volpe]

Even though I live in the U.S., can I still sign the petition if any of this crap gets pushed into motion?

Dan Howard - Your letter sounds great! You did a good job of noting how the rules may affect you - ie your livelihood, which I think is a very good point, as well as mentioning things like using a machete to clear brush.

To add onto that, by the way, ask if it's ok to buy a chainsaw to instead clear brush from your property, which in turn requires gasoline and oil, and makes a lot of noise (harmful to the environment)...The machete doesn't need gas to run...Hehe.

If these violent crimes are being done with swords, then perhaps law enforcement ought to start training on how to disarm/restrain someone wielding a sword - There are plenty of manuals and techniques both from Europe and Asia for the better part of 500 years. :wink:
(and hey, why not fight fire with fire - equip law enforcement with swords and teach them to use them properly! Seeing an officer with a sword AND a gun would most certainly keep me in line! -like I cause trouble, ha!)

Perhaps there should be state funded self-defence classes too for the masses who may come across some moron with a sword and how to deal with it...It both legitimizes all of our hard work researching [Medieval] weapons combat, continues to support this research/reconstruction, and ensures the general population being able to defend themselves for a change, rather than depending on the government, who apparently can't handle all of these sword crimes since they keep happening.

There was a similar overblown political action taken on firearms here in Massachusetts about 3-4 years ago - The lawyers/government decided that ALL firearms were too dangerous for anyone so all guns of all firing mechanisms were required to have trigger locks, if not banned all together. About a month or so after the law was put into effect, there was the VERY popular and long held tradition of the recreation of the "Shot Heard Round The World" of the Revolutionary war, where there are several dozen British and Colonial reenactors who come, in full kit, and draws in several hundred locals and tourists every year (ie $$$$$)...But, because of this silly law, and no way to negotiate, there was the very real possibility of both sides of reenactors showing up with muskets with trigger locks, who were just going to stand there and stare at each other (there was one joking idea about aiming the muskets and screaming "BANG!" by some people)....The law was "altered" to again allow "obsolete ignition" firearms to be waived from the law...And the event went on without much as a huff.

So, there if this sword ban went full tilt on you guys in UK, then you can show up to events with no swords, or other such pointy things...And everyone will get upset and realize how silly the law is.

The next weapons to be banned are going to have to be Sticks and Stones....Oh, and DUST, we MUST ban dust, because it's awfully unkind to throw dust into someone's face or eyes, that could also cause an allergic reaction if that person is allergic to dust!

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

I've forwarded it to as many members of the group as I can, hopefully sucessfully! Mind you, most of them probably already know about it!

[Jeroen Pelgrom]

I also heard about this one...

Our instructor of swordfighting said that from now on, our sword is "sporting-equipment", just like fencing.

[Salvianus]

Even though I live in the U.S., can I still sign the petition if any of this crap gets pushed into motion?

As this is a piece of government consultation, you must be a British citizen or resident to sign the petition. This is what differentiates it from the usual internet petition which counts even less than paper petitions in official valuations and that is very low indeed.

The system is being trialled, in the face of some scepticism, with a view to establishing whether it is a valid way of accessing the opinions of a public slow to engage with the traditional methods, or just a magnet for internet junkies with an axe to grind.

Like most forms of consultation, the system may not be very representative and by no means equivalent to referenda. You can already see a) there are a lot of petitions, some attracting very little support b) many cover very similar ground c) some seem badly drafted and d) well organised pressure groups are hard at work on specific single issues. Er... such as this. None of this bodes well for the trial or how seriously it will be taken.

As with any issue, reasoned, balanced individual letters have far, far more impact, especially to praise some of the ideas considered in the Scottish proposals. As yet, I believe any action would be purely as a precaution.

[Arthes]

I've signed and passed the word on to a few others....
It won't just stop with swords....pugios, spears, dories, pilums, pikes, and what about bayonets.....all made from rubber or latex painted to look real - then we are arrested because they look real..?
As is usual, a knife happy minority who doesn't know right from wrong are causing problems for the rest of us.....and they don't use swords or even the odd pugio.
This government reminds me of a certain militaristic culture in the 1st century that removed the weapons of the conquered peoples of Britannia and in doing so, took away their pride and honour....:roll: :roll:
How long before we have to shout.....'Hail Ceasar' to a certain Antonius of Via Downingium ... :wink:

[Primvs Pavlvs]

The people responsible should be sacked!

[Robert Vermaat]

And the people responsible for sacking the responsible people being sacked, should be sacked!

[Marcus Julius]

Crimes being commited with swords?

Well, I guess that's what happens when you take guns away from the honest law abiding citizens - they now have nothing to defend themselves with.

[Sulla]

Seems like people in the UK are loosing one freedom after another. With the new ID and not being able to get a passport without it or the driving taxes etc etc.

[Tarbicus]

Crimes being commited with swords?

Well, I guess that's what happens when you take guns away from the honest law abiding citizens - they now have nothing to defend themselves with.

Well, as a Brit I have to say I despise seeing even a policeman with a gun in the street. I never even saw a real one until I was 16, and that was on holiday in Malta. Believe me, your average British citizen has no desire to own a gun or have one near them. For farming or blood sports, yes. For the sake of it, no thanks.

[Robert Vermaat]

Jim, I suspect Brian was not quite serious.... :wink: