Mail replaced segmentata? Why?

[Tarbicus]

sorry to confuse you.

Happens easily with me :wink:

[Aurelianus]

[Poor wrought iron cannot not be drawn into wire.

I meant that "drawing in to wire" has been an invention of the Middle Age and that the romans made the round rings by hammering to round piece of wire! Am I wrong?

[RUBICON]

Not sure on the process of making segs or maille, but watching my own farrier "bang up" "shape", "add grooves and nail holes, toe clips" onto four horse shoes in no time at all. So I'm imagining hammering and curving flat pieces of seg doesnt seem that hard which I assume they woudl be producing a few at a time?

My farrier even says that when he sits at home and starts "banging up differet sizes' for spares, he gets moving and its like aminiature production line and he just bangs & curves!

[RUBICON]

Maille on the other hand seems like a hell of a job!!!

Much more tiem consuming,bending, threading, locking every little ring?

Can you honestly imagine making maille?

D D

[Erik D. Schmid]

Yes. :wink:

[RUBICON]

Yes. :wink: Erik


???? you agree maille would be one hell of a job or Yes, you can imagine making Maille?

:wink:

[A_Volpe]

Matt Amt - Thanks for pointing out the flaws in my entry! Boy did I have some DUH moments reading your counterpoints! You're right, I SHOULD know better on some of those things! Yikes, I need to take more time previewing my posts before hitting "submit"! :roll:

Yeah, if Maille was "easily punched through", then why was it used for over a thousand years...Yeah good point! Hehehe, pun intended?

But at the same time, I think the intent of wearing maille was for "glancing" hits, not intended for "direct" hits, even if you're on horseback and charging with a lance, you get hit with that kind of force and maille isn't going to stop anything...Isn't that why they had a shield (Norman "kite" shield, later the infamous "heater" shield) until full steel plate took over?

Although I still think there is a likelihood (to rephrase) that a good spearpoint might punch through maille, but as is the case a steel breastplate, and as you said, it's a lucky shot more times than not.

That being said, I suppose I'd be more concerned with getting smashed with a polehammer or a mace (or a club or a sword pommel) wearing maille than I would be worried about a spear point or arrow.

but I digress... Certainly there is not an easy answer to this, although with some of the theories and counterpoints, I'm going to have to change some of my presentation material, so thanks!

[Lusitano]

I dont know how romans(or other iron age people) transformed iron ore into iron/steel but i'm going to assume it was a bit like this guy in the movie

http://www.history.com/media.do?action= ... _broadband

(the movie is about sword making just watch a bit)

To do wire they would have to squeeze the metal through some sort of hole and pull it out from the other side (not sure if roman did it)

Comparing to metal plates it woud be much more work.

But, that would only be a lot of work if wire was only for maille purposes, if there was mass production of wire for any other purpose, maille could be easier to do then plates.

Another point to maille is its flexibility. I'm talking about the ability maille has to "stretch" adapting itself to the body of the wearer. So if you have an army with lots of guys with various sizes, maille could be cheaper.
I know that romans refered to gauls as beeing very tall, a seg made for roman height could leave parts of the body of a new romanized gaul a bit exposed. while maille could easily cover more of the body.

Briefly, an hamata could be done in a one size fits all, while a seg could not.

[Tarbicus]

But, that would only be a lot of work if wire was only for maille purposes, if there was mass production of wire for any other purpose, maille could be easier to do then plates.

Good point.

I know that romans refered to gauls as beeing very tall, a seg made for roman height could leave parts of the body of a new romanized gaul a bit exposed. while maille could easily cover more of the body.

Briefly, an hamata could be done in a one size fits all, while a seg could not.

Not if the segs were made locally from blooms or plate.

[Robert Vermaat]

Briefly, an hamata could be done in a one size fits all, while a seg could not.

Not if the segs were made locally from blooms or plate.

or from (cough)leather(cough). :twisted:

[Tarbicus]

You're just being mischievous. Or you know something you're not telling us. :wink:

[RUBICON]

Wow Nuno,

What an eye opener...maybe tougher than I imagined

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

BTW Stefano, I figure you probably know, but Erik knows quite a bit about making mail, to put it mildly! :lol:

[RUBICON]

Wow really? Oops sorry Erik! :oops: No I didnt know, the reason I asked!
<---makes notes to read profiles!

Erik where can I find information or could you enlighten me with the time it would possibly take to make a maille outfit considering ancient roman trade practices?

Is it comparable to making Segs?

Also, with the introduction of new legions etc, were the uniforms (segs or mail)
that were handed out, new or second hand ones?


Oh and one last question "Would the army collect weapons and armour from fallen comrades?"
My wonderful partner just asked me? since when is she interested??? :?

[RUBICON]

<-------bows down to Erik!

Wow I just read the thread on the hamata you made.

I salute you!