Santa Maria Maggiore mosaics

[Tarbicus]

Well, I think I can safely say this is definitely iron. At last we have a colour pictorial representation from a 5thC mosaic (note the armour on all soldiers seems to be 'old' by that time).
Big up for William:
http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic.php?t=12491

Note: I think it's a seg anyway :wink: Many may not agree.

[Dan Howard]

The stuff covering the groin and upper thighs is the same as the stuff covering the torso. Is there anything to suggest that segmented plate ever covered this area? If not then we need another interpretation.

[Tarbicus]

The colours are different for a start, and they lack the solid black definition outlines that the torso armour has.

Here's a link to a filtered image with my opinion on the different armours worn by the lower large figures:
[url:17rn1z16]http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i311/tarbicus/s_maria_maggiore_SEG.jpg?t=1165144241[/url]

Added:
And if you look at the lowest figure labelled as wearing hamata?, he is wearing full length leg armour of either mail, or possibly even lamellar? See this for a comparison:
[url:17rn1z16]http://www.geocities.com/normlaw/lam-fgt.gif[/url]

[Paulus Claudius Damianus]

Tarbicus you are my god!!!!

Have-you any better pictures (most high-resolution) of santa maria Maggiore church mosaics with this armor figurations?

Please...

PS: Can I take you're pictures and talking to the french late roman forum?

[Tarbicus]

Restitutis/William posted the original link (two laudes from me so far),, which you can find from the original link I posted here.
[url:3m9t67xp]http://www.mcah.columbia.edu/dbcourses/publicportfolio.cgi?view=666#[/url]

The photos also have clear depictions of musculata made of metal, both iron and possibly bronze.

[Robert Vermaat]

On the other images I see hoplites, chariots :!: , 'Hellenistic' helmets and armour with shoulder doublers.

The armour may be anything, from an attempt to reconstruct a longer hamata, or lamellar armour, to a badly-understood segmentata.

I fear this is too fancyful to base conclusions about arms and armour on.
Too bad, I would have liked to use it for the 'hasta longa'.

[Tarbicus]

The point is that regardless of type and representation (I think it apes the Columns, etc) the material is metal, and definitely not leather. There isn't a single piece of leather armour that I can spot in all of the photos of the mosaics. Even the prolific linothorax type of armour is iron with bronze pectorals.

But I'm one zillion percent sure that it is a seg being shown there.

[Robert Vermaat]

Yep, iron. 100% agreed. But a seg???

[Paulus Claudius Damianus]

Thank you very much Tarbicus and Restitutis too...

[Tarbicus]

Yep, iron. 100% agreed. But a seg???

Utterly convinced mate. The other armours have styles of their own, but this one is clear as day to me. I've pushed pixels for near twenty years starting in the early days of games and those little bitmap graphics, and a mosaic is the same in approach to laying down individual pixels :wink: Thoroughly convinced.

[Tarbicus]

Here's another way of looking at it with the luminance inverted but the colours retained.
[urlqm947cy]http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i311/tarbicus/s_maria_maggiore_SEG_inverted.jpg?t=1165147915[/url]

Notice how every other armour is somewhat confused, but that one lorica keeps its regular pattern of horizontal strips.

[Tarbicus]

And here are three more versions processed in different ways:

[url:wegdz49h]http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i311/tarbicus/s_maria_maggiore_SEG_FP_01.jpg?t=1165148661[/url]

[url:wegdz49h]http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i311/tarbicus/s_maria_maggiore_SEG_FP_02.jpg?t=1165148689[/url]

[url:wegdz49h]http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i311/tarbicus/s_maria_maggiore_SEG_FP_03.jpg?t=1165148717[/url]

Bear in mind that the filtering has been done to the entire image, not just specific parts.

[Dan Howard]

The colours are different for a start, and they lack the solid black definition outlines that the torso armour has.

??? The colours are the same. The armour is the same.

The first circle shows the torso armour. The lower circle shows the armour covering the groin and upper thighs. It is exactly the same armour. The armour covers from the torso down to the mid thigh. It can't be a segmentata. IMO it is scale or lamellar.

[Robert Vermaat]

How about lamellar armour? That also might be represented with 'strips', and it may be longer than a seg?

Edited: Dan, you posted the same thought!

Jim, can I ask you if you think at least whether, if a seg, the representation is 100% correct?

[Tarbicus]

The colours are different for a start, and they lack the solid black definition outlines that the torso armour has.

??? The colours are the same. The armour is the same.

The first circle shows the torso armour. The lower circle shows the armour covering the groin and upper thighs. It is exactly the same armour. The armour covers from the torso down to the mid thigh. It can't be a segmentata. IMO it is scale or lamellar.

Sorry Dan, I misunderstood your initial meaning. Good point.

But, if it were meant to be lamellar I think the artist would have separated the plates with more regular gridded vertical tiles as well. The squamata scales are isolated, the hamata has holes, and I think the lamellar would have had a similar aspects as the squamata. It represents iron bands going around the body, and not small individual plates, but that's only my opinion.

But you still have a good point. I'm back down to 100% convinced. :wink: