Late 2nd Century Legionary Infantry

[Crispvs]

"The Column of MA only shows hamata without doubling IIRC as does the earlier Trajanic Adamklissi monument."

Actually shoulder doubling is shown on the Adamklissi metopes:

http://museums.ncl.ac.uk/archive/arma/c ... tope20.htm

Crispvs

[Caius Valens]

Hello Caius here just like to thank everyone who responded, Yeah I have this book too(Imperial Roman Legionary 161-284 AD). I have trouble accepting the fact that the Greek Pattern Doubling was still in use as well. I have read they disappered by the time of Trajan War in Dacia. However I know some Reenactors who would disagree with me.Sheilds are pretty much what I expected,its a pity we dont know more about late 2nd-3rd Century sheild patterns. I think I will stick with the Pompey type sword for know, but would like to get a Spatha some day. Any more info is appericated Cheers Caius/Thom R

[Caballo]

So- hamata doubling still in use during the Dacian war (Adamklissi evidence) - 101-102, 105-106 AD. Marcus Aurelius - Emperor 161-80 (doubling not shown on MA column, nor any other evidence AFAIK (?)).
I can't think of any practical reason why doubling would be dropped between these dates, so fashion may be the driver?

But it would be a brave man who stated that no doubling existed in MA's army....I would suggest that it would look a bit antique (wearing Grand-dad's armour) but not be completely ruled out?

Unless there is evidence out there of hamata doubling later than the Dacian wars.... ?


Cheers

Caballo

[Tib. Gabinius]

"The Column of MA only shows hamata without doubling IIRC as does the earlier Trajanic Adamklissi monument."

Actually shoulder doubling is shown on the Adamklissi metopes:

http://museums.ncl.ac.uk/archive/arma/c ... tope20.htm

Crispvs

Hm, as far as i can see, it's a manica under going under the shoulder, i can't see an humeralia in it, but i didn't seen it in real or copy right now and so i might be wrong.
Any arch. interpretating it as a humeralia?

And take a look on the metope showing a legionary soldier smashing his umbo in the face of a dacian warrior. He show us all of his hamata, and there isn't a sign of a humeralia, like also at the armor of the cav. shown.

Take a look here:
http://museums.ncl.ac.uk/archive/arma/c ... tope18.htm
here:
http://museums.ncl.ac.uk/archive/arma/c ... tope29.htm
or anywhere else.

[markusaurelius]

In terms of armor, I'm sure some Hamata would fit fine, but if you wanted something unique and more interesting IMO... :wink:

How about some Newstead Segmentata.
Great write-up and some examples from Legio XX website.

NEWSTEAD Segmentata

IMO the pinical of Body armor, but that argument is for another thread

[Iosephus]

Tobias, I agree with you on the Adamklissi relief, the "shoulder doubling" seems as part of the manica for me as well.

What about archeological evidence?
I mean what are the latest dated examples of these kind of fittings:

http://www.roma-victrix.com/armamentari ... ibulae.htm

(It's a shame but I don't know the latin name of these pieces)

[Publius Aelius Lucius]

I think you can take a Stillfried lorica segmentata. You will find a article in Archäologie Österreichs 11:2: Eibner, Ein römischer Spangenpanzer aus Stillfried an der March. I will ask the director in Stillfried about this found. In Bishops Lorica Segmentata Vol. I is the Stillfried type mention.
Cheers
Martin

[Tib. Gabinius]

Stante pede i don't remember if or if not there are those fibulae (let's call them so, cause i also don't know and didn't found a name for it) in clear context (legionoary 2nd century) found, but in my memories they aren't.

That would be an evidence which would change my attitude.

But i remember the breat plates, mostly dated to 2nd century, which were part of the squamatae, obv. part of there shoulder doubling, but that's an evidence for the squamata, not for the hamata