3rd-4th c roman shoes (Cuijk campagi images)

[Robert]

Thanks for the posts, Robert! The preservation of the Cuijk finds is really amazing. As these would seem to be civilian shoe's (includes women and children) this may explain the absence of heavy boots?

[Salvianus]

That´s strange, Aitor! There must have been some more heavy-duty shoes for more rugged terrains, I`m sure. Anyway we must stick with the evidence we have right now :wink: ...

I've been musing on the heavy-duty shoe issue again.

In Roman Military Clothing V.3, D'Amato refers to 40 calcei found at Arras from the C4th-5th and one from Aquileia. I'm wondering if anyone knows where these are published or what they looked like? It would make quite a difference if these were ankle boots typical of the C3rd or a low shoe of nailed construction.

Anyway, I'd be grateful for any further info,

cheers

[Martin Moser]

In Roman Military Clothing V.3, D'Amato refers to 40 calcei found at Arras from the C4th-5th and one from Aquileia.

That's the major crux with those Osprey books - no decent references :-P P
Let's hope somebody knows more ... Graham perhaps!?

FWIW, here's a reproduction of one of the shoes from Cuijk (see above) I made earlier this year:

[Salvianus]

They look great, Martin

I imagine the best guide to the Cuijk finds will be
Driel-Murray, C. van, (2007) ‘Mode in de nadagen van het Keizerrijk: de schoenen van Cuijk’, Westerheem 56, 133-141
though I have limited access to academic sources and even more limited linguistic skills :wink:

The photo's of these careful reproductions are a great resource in themselves - single soled campagi seem well illuminated. The idea of nice heavy-duty triple-soled calcei is too tantalising! 'Stepping Through Time' takes a bit of saving up for, just for one chapter!

[Crispvs]

Robert,

In the first group of pictures you put up on the first page of this thread, I notice that in the second picture there is orange discolouration around a number of small holes. To me this looks suspiciously like rust deposits from hobnails around the holes in the leather where the nails went through. Do you have another explanation for this effect?

Crispvs

[Martin Moser]

I imagine the best guide to the Cuijk finds will be
Driel-Murray, C. van, (2007) ‘Mode in de nadagen van het Keizerrijk: de schoenen van Cuijk’, Westerheem 56, 133-141
though I have limited access to academic sources

If you need it, PM me ... ;-) )

[Martin Moser]

Robert,
In the first group of pictures you put up on the first page of this thread, I notice that in the second picture there is orange discolouration around a number of small holes. To me this looks suspiciously like rust deposits from hobnails around the holes in the leather where the nails went through. Do you have another explanation for this effect?

Just went back and looked at it - sharp eyes Crispvs! :-) )
I tink you are definitely right. Now if we'd only know more about this find ...

[Oisin]

I was wondering about the same question as Virilis.

I'd like to make myself a pair of Late Roman (4th-5th century) shoes, but I'd like something that's a bit heavier, or that at least covers the entire foot and a bit up the leg, roughly the same area as a modern combat boot (perhaps with a lower top, though). Does such a thing exist?

Something worn by someone else at the time would be fine as well . . . a Saxon boot design from the same period would do just as well, if it's more the sort of thing I'm looking for.

A number of pictures on the Fectio site seem to show reinactors wearing something of the sort, that even lace up like modern shoes.

[Robert Vermaat]

A number of pictures on the Fectio site seem to show reinactors wearing something of the sort, that even lace up like modern shoes.

You're probably referring my older pair of 'not too correct shoes' or Chariovalda's boots.
Can you show us a picture of what you mean?

[Oisin]

Something like these shoes:



Guy on the right:



Which may be two pictures of the same person/boots in different costume, I'm not sure.

Basically, though, I'm a member of a boffer combat sport (fast paced, hard hitting, no LARPy magic crap) that doesn't require any actual historical authenticity, but I take pride in my garb and equipment and like to make it as good as possible even if most of the other people around me aren't.

What I need are a pair of boots that I can use as cold/wet weather footwear to replace my old Air Force combat boots, which I currently use. I'd really like to be as authentic as possible, but the bottom line is that I need footwear that will keep the rain and the muck and the cold out to a reasonable extent. They can be high topped, low topped (as long as they're at least roughly as high as the calcei or caligae, high ankle), whatever, I'm not picky about that. Don't even necessarily need to be a native Roman design. I might have picked up a pair of native boots campaigning somewhere.

I just don't think the calcei from the Florentivs site fit that bill, although I'm considering making a pair to replace my caligae as summer wear, which are wearing out and not early 5th-century appropriate anyway.

[Martin Moser]

What I need are a pair of boots that I can use as cold/wet weather footwear to replace my old Air Force combat boots, which I currently use. I'd really like to be as authentic as possible, but the bottom line is that I need footwear that will keep the rain and the muck and the cold out to a reasonable extent. They can be high topped, low topped (as long as they're at least roughly as high as the calcei or caligae, high ankle), whatever, I'm not picky about that. Don't even necessarily need to be a native Roman design. I might have picked up a pair of native boots campaigning somewhere.

Hm, depends how strict you are - I'm not aware of any securely dated finds of 5th century boots. You could either look for depictions (frescoes, mosaics) and make something based on that or you could decide that some of the boots found in Egypt (Achmim, Antinoe) and dated mid 2nd century an later (dating is uncertain for practically all of these) might be 5th century ...

[Oisin]

Considering what they're replacing, and that I'd be using them for bad weather combat and not shows, I'm not that strict in the way you'd look at it. I'd really like to be as close as possible, but the final choices are going to be governed by utility not accuracy, and fighting for hours with wet feet just isn't acceptable.

The problem is that I've never made shoes before, so I don't know how to just go about designing a pair from a frescoe or some such.

[Baiuware]

Considering what they're replacing, and that I'd be using them for bad weather combat and not shows, I'm not that strict in the way you'd look at it. I'd really like to be as close as possible, but the final choices are going to be governed by utility not accuracy, and fighting for hours with wet feet just isn't acceptable.

Or you could stick to the "correct" shoes and simply wear hidden protection...

[Robert Vermaat]

Which may be two pictures of the same person/boots in different costume, I'm not sure.

No no, different persons, different shoes. The one above (Andreas, 4th c. outfit) and the one below (Robert, not from our group, 1st c. outfit) happen to wear roughly similar type boots.

[Oisin]

Considering what they're replacing, and that I'd be using them for bad weather combat and not shows, I'm not that strict in the way you'd look at it. I'd really like to be as close as possible, but the final choices are going to be governed by utility not accuracy, and fighting for hours with wet feet just isn't acceptable.

Or you could stick to the "correct" shoes and simply wear hidden protection...

Interesting . . . I don't suppose anyone knows an American distributor for those?