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Well, the Greeks and Macedonians used linen only for many centuries, and it provides pretty good protection against the weapons that they had...but they used 15-20 layers of it, not just one. We know it was linen, because the name for that armor was "LINOTHORAX" which I think means something like "Linen Torso". One layer wouldn't be much good. Just like a 1/16" (2mm) layer of wood veneer isn't much protection or strength, but 5 of them glued together with alternating grain direction is many times stronger, hence that use in plywood.
I don't think there's ever been any proof that leather was put inside the linen layers. Some of the Greeks on this list will probably add to that, so I'll be still here.
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(David Wills)
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Yeah that was kind of the point (guess I wasn't clear enough, my mistake). I know that the Linothorax was an adequate barrier for the greeks. I am limiting the question to the Roman subarmalis only. Were the flaps only one or two layers thick? That is what most the pictures look like. Or is it that the multiple rows of them is where you would get the "15-20" layers of linen as a barrier? That is the main thrust of my question. The second would be is it proper to use leather for the pfuterages and linen for the rest of the subarmalis?
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Chris Boatcallie
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We'd wish we'd have answers for all your questions :roll:
About the quantity of pterugae, what you can see on the most detailed statues is two superimposed rows of three superimposed (not staggered)pterugae layers. That would give you up to six superimposed pterugae at the upper part of the skirt and three at the lower one.
The pterugae, as depicted on statues, seem to be rather thick. They show perimetral stitching (on the Prima Porta statue I'd swear I can see soumak stitching forming the borders  hock: ) and, on a few statues, they have a rough texture, resembling felt or fabric...
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It's kind of slow at work before Christmas so I have had the luxury of surfing the net for two days looking for as much info as I could. One fairly obvious thing that has seemed to escape me is the fact that most of the Roman club websites show few people with flaps when they wear Segmentata. If they do, it seems to be a single row at the bottom. I really don't care too much for the look of only one row. I thought I knew what I wanted to make over this next week's break and now I am back to square one not knowing what I really like. I will most definately make one with rows upon rows in 2008 when I plan on budgeting the armor for my greek gear (muscled cuirass), but with the Roman......? Back to the segmented....Does anyone put them on the shoulders with the Segmented armor? Is it wrong to have multiple rows on the bottom to the upper thigh with it?
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Chris Boatcallie
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I wouldn't bother with glue. Not only do the sources specifically imply that it wasn't used, but if you stab and shoot at two armours of the same number of layers, one glued and one quilted, the quilted armour actually provides better protection than the glued sample. Glue also negates one of the main reasons for using linen in the first place - it allows the body to breathe.
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I have a linen subarmalis, and it is fine. But ... as a Late Roman, I would like to have pteruges and stitch leather pteruges onto it.
Problem ... has this occurred to anyone? Would having pteruges on the sleeves make hauling on a ringmail hamata impossible? Mine is quite a tight fit and difficult to get on at the moment, would leather pteruges make that worse??!!
And is the concept of leather pteruges on a linen subarmalis totally stupid?
Should I go down the pteruge 'belt' route?
~ Paul Elliott
The Last Legionary
This book details the lives of Late Roman legionaries garrisoned in Britain in 400AD. It covers everything from battle to rations, camp duties to clothing.
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Quote:And is the concept of leather pteruges on a linen subarmalis totally stupid?
I don't see why.
I think pteryges must reach further than the mail, I mean, covering the parts the main armor doesn't reach, like upper arms and upper legs.
![[Image: 120px-Septimani_seniores_shield_pattern.svg.png]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e2/Septimani_seniores_shield_pattern.svg/120px-Septimani_seniores_shield_pattern.svg.png) ![[Image: Estalada.gif]](http://webs.racocatala.cat/esteladaanimada/Estalada.gif)
Ivan Perelló
[size=150:iu1l6t4o]Credo in Spatham, Corvus sum bellorum[/size]
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Finished my subarmalis for my Semgmentata. I need to pull that lowest plate into alignment. Then I need a Balteus, Scabbard and Baldric from Christian Fletcher, Pugio when I find one I like, and Caligae. And I know, eventually I will replace my Albion Mainz with a Pompei so that all the gear is in the right time frame. Anyway, thought people here would enjoy after I have asked so many questions about the gear. Thanks.
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Chris Boatcallie
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eeerrm....... refrased........ is your segmentata slightly too large?
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H.J.Vrielink.
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No. How do you figure. There are five plates. Every segmentata I have ever seen has five plates. The leather straps might need to be shortened. I don't know. It's off the shelf, and I haven't done any mods to it yet.
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Chris Boatcallie
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it just looks odd but that might have to do with the subarmalis combined with your body mass...
![[Image: segmentata1.jpg]](http://www.gemina.nl/images/segmentata1.jpg)
M.VIB.M.
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It fits fairly well in the chest, but the shoulders may be a little wide. I am 6'0" at about 165 lbs. so a very tight frame. I may try to pull in the shoulders a little by tightening the leather straps and leaving more overlap between the plates. It does pinch a bit on the tricep, but I think its because the chest plates are slightly too large (so when my arms hang naturally at my side a plate digs somewhat into the side of my arm). Not sure how to fix that though since the plates are pretty much touching each other and there are no real gaps. I see what you mean, but not sure how to fix it.
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Chris Boatcallie
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If it articulates without hindrance, and protects the upper arms, what's the issue? Romans were smaller, so making a seg that's of identical size to original finds would only make your seg too small, surely?
TARBICvS/Jim Bowers
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there is no issue tarbi......
you misread the posting....
M.VIB.M.
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You were suggesting his seg's too large? If not, then yeah.
TARBICvS/Jim Bowers
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