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+--- Thread: Subarmalis for lorica hamata (/showthread.php?tid=7447)
Subarmalis for lorica hamata - SOCL - 11-16-2006
Fellows,
I should be receiving my lorica hamata in mid to late December from Find-It Armoury (my first armor!
what is recommended? I am especially looking for responses from those who have worn or wear hamata on a regular basis.Next order of business is the material and colour. If I understand correctly, the cloth itself can basically be of any colour since the subarmalis would likely have been made of old, rather useless material (such as an old tunica). I'm not so much concerned about that as I am about whether it should be cloth or leather. If leather, which is what I am leaning towards, can anyone give me or direct me to any examples of leather subarmalis period appropriate (i.e. late Republican-early Imperial)? Further, would this be rather along the same lines as ones worn by centuriones, but with less "wow" to them, or is there a "pattern" much more simple?
Thanks!
Re: Subarmalis for lorica hamata - Matthew Amt - 11-16-2006
Well, there probably isn't much we can tell you as far as evidence goes. There aren't any surviving pieces, no certain illustrations, and only one rather vague and later description. The idea that they were made of recycled tunics is my own theory (though I think it's a darn good one!). Basically, you know about as much as most of us do, at this point!
Folks who have practical experience to share, please chime in! Otherwise, this is pretty much in the category of, "Good question! Find out and let us know!"
It's entirely possible that men just wore a couple old tunics under a hamata. It's also possible that a hamata included a complex and fully attached lining. We just don't know! We DO see short pteruges on some legionaries in mail, though you're right that whatever was there was probably less snazzy than for a centurion or legatus. Other than that, I don't think there are any details you could include which would specifically point to one era or another.
Good luck!
Matthew
Re: Subarmalis for lorica hamata - SOCL - 11-16-2006
I suppose, then, that with the leather subarmalis it's in the category of use and be inspired by other reenactors' ideas.
In case anyone else is curious, here are two good examples of leather subarmalis from Legio VI Victrix in California and Legio VI Ferrata in South Carolina, respectively:
http://www.florentius.com/subarmalis.htm
http://www.legionsix.org/lafe06%2064.jpg
Re: Subarmalis for lorica hamata - Gaius_Calvus - 11-16-2006
Avete,
I recently constructed a subarmalis for a hamata and it works very well.
I used an outer layer of pigskin, a middle layer of wool (an old 100% wool army blanket), and an inner layer of linen.
Each piece of pigskin is 31" long (to allow a 1/2" hem at bottom and 1/2" overlap at the top) and 27" wide. Wool and linen are 30" by 26".
I sewed the wool and linen to the leather making two rectangles 26" by 30", and attached the rectangle together at the top, leaving a hole (which I hemmed) for my head.
I then measured the distance between the tips of my shoulders (18" for me) and cut two right triangles off from the shoulder tip to the side, allowing me an armhole.
I next quilted the liner to the leather, and added two straps and buckles to each side; one a few inches below the armhole and another about 6" below that, but above the waist far enough so that my balteus fell well below the bottom subarmalis strap.
Very easy to put on, good level of protection for my body under the mail (spreads out the force of a blow as a subarmalis/mail combination is supposed to do) and comfortable.
Contact me and I can send you a diagram.
Vale,
Calvus
Re: Subarmalis for lorica hamata - Marcus Mummius - 11-16-2006
Personaly I'm a believer in the non-leather subarmalis. Leather breaths very badly so you'll be drenched in sweat. You also need padding in the body area, not only on the shoulders. A linen vest padded with wool/horsehair/felt or something else would be a lot better than a leather subarmalis.
The leather pteruges you see with a lot of reenactors are not based on any evidence either, I think. If you look at statues the pteruges look to be made out of cloth (the outer layer at least). Travis Clark's musculata site has a lot of info on this. Flaps of flexible leather offer almost no protection.
I'm in the proces of constructing pteruges for my hamata subarmalis (made out of linen and several layers of thin felt. The pteruges are made out of several layers of linen, glued together. The result are surprisingly rigid and though flaps. I haven't done any test but I think two layers in a staggered pattern will be quite protective
Vale,
Jef
Re: Subarmalis for lorica hamata - Dan Howard - 11-16-2006
I'm not keen on leather either for the same reasons. Go with multiple layersof textile. Some natural fibres (e.g. linen) allow the body to breathe and will help wick away the sweat.
Re: Subarmalis for lorica hamata - SOCL - 11-16-2006
Edge, I'm interested in the diagrams and have sent you a PM.
So is the general recommendation to make a body-padded subarmalis? I ask because I have seen reenactors who wear little or nothing over the top of the tunica.
I understand about leather not breathing well, Jef and Dan, but at the same time, wouldn't leather be better over just cloth against the hamata? I mean, wouldn't hamata simply tear apart any cloth directly against the mail? So wouldn't leather be more favorable?
Re: Subarmalis for lorica hamata - Gaius_Calvus - 11-16-2006
Everybody is entitled to their opinion.
I offered up a suggestion -- did not critique choices others had made.
And...I specifically made no comparisons between my idea or those of others.
Calvus
Re: Subarmalis for lorica hamata - Tarbicus - 11-16-2006
Like Jef linen is my choice, but I might even try detachable rawhide pteryges as it's excellent armour and detachable pteryges have cropped up before. It also means I could use the same subarmalis under my Find-It hamata to do Republican, 1stC, 2ndC, etc.
Re: Subarmalis for lorica hamata - SOCL - 11-16-2006
Quote:Like Jef linen is my choice, but I might even try detachable rawhide pteryges as it's excellent armour and detachable pteryges have cropped up before. It also means I could use the same subarmalis under my Find-It hamata to do Republican, 1stC, 2ndC, etc.How would you do detachable pteryges (other than a knife)?
Re: Subarmalis for lorica hamata - Marcus Mummius - 11-16-2006
I don't know what kind of mail you are wearing but mine doesn't tear up the subarmalis
Is it butted mail with sharp ends and such? You new correct mail will probably be much nicer to your underclothing.
No a strong linen does the job just fine. I think an oiled leather jerkin would be nice to wear over the hamata though in case of rainy weather.
No I think multilayered fabric is the way to go. Leather subs look cool, no mistake about it but one made out of fabric is superior.
You are right by saying most reenactors appear not to be wearing a padded subarmalis under their hamata. A nicely padded subarmalis makes you look a bit more voluminous and bulky than you really are but I do not think this matters on the battlefield.
Vale,
Re: Subarmalis for lorica hamata - Marcus Mummius - 11-16-2006
@Calvus: Salve frater! I did not mean to critisise you. In fact I didn't read your post until after I made mine. I had to answer a telephone call while writing my post so it took me a while to finish it. Some time ago we had several topics dealing with the subarmalis or related to the topic ('padded armour' thread 'linothorax again' thread,...)
The discussion about leather vs fabric in this thread was very interesting and I was won for the fabric side.
@Tarbicus: My pteruges will also be detachable. I don't know what kind of system I'll use but I'll work something out. It would be a good idea to treat the rawhide with lineseed oil to prevent it from going putrid and to make it water resistant.
Re: Subarmalis for lorica hamata - Tarbicus - 11-16-2006
Quote:How would you do detachable pteryges (other than a knife)?Threaded through holes in the pteryges and the subarmalis using chord. No evidence for it, but then there's no evidence for a subarmalis construction anyway. I thought I'd try it out, especially the rawhide which would give excellent protection for the upper limbs while being flexible. I'll probably hate them, but you gotta try.
Here's another alternative, which also makes sense:
[url:bqo4740n]http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic.php?p=66046#66046[/url]
Re: Subarmalis for lorica hamata - Matt Lukes - 11-16-2006
It seems reasonable to me that leather on just the tops of the shoulders where I'd expect the majority of the wear would occur might be a good idea and not have major breatheability issues- yes?
Re: Subarmalis for lorica hamata - Gaius_Calvus - 11-16-2006
Salvete, omnes.
Saul -- I sent you a powerpoint diagram to your email. Call me if you have questions.
Understand completely the preferences for cloth vs leather -- we all have what works for us. Mine works well so far! :lol:
Haven't fought any barbarians yet, but believe I can move and receive adequate protection.
Calvus