Late republican - early Imperial kit

[QVINTVS ARTORIVS CORVINVS]

Group, I really need your help!

Being as the general internet can be a bit dodgy, I turn to the experts.

I am trying to outfit a small group 6-10 legionairres. The main era is to be the Augustan period, with pushes into the early Imperial period.

I just know that some of you are re-enacting that period and have accurate gear; could I please trouble you to post pictures to this thread of:

Legionairre - Augustan
Centurion - Augustan

Legionairre - Early Imperial
Centurion - Early Imperial

Do either of these periods facilitate the use of segmentata?
Do the helmets get much beyond Imperial Gallic "A"?

Are the balteus' similar in structure between the periods?
Shield differences, Weapon differences...

Thank you all in advance!

Phillip

[Gaivs Antonivs Satvrninvs]

Salve,Phillip.
If you have access to Markus Junkelmann's "Legions of Augustus" I believe all your answers can be found there. It's written in German but the pics tell it pretty well.Troops,Centurions,equipment. No segs,helms mostly montefortino except the Centurion's Gallic. (I found a copy reasonably priced on a well known auction site).
Vale,

[Crispvs]

Segmentata might be acceptable for one or two of your legionaries, as it appears to have been in use in at least one place as early as 9BC and was definitely in use by AD9 but it would have to be of the poorly understood Kalkriese type and I do not believe that there is anyone making this commercially.

Have a look at Hilary Travis' site here for one person's attempt to reconstruct it:

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/kalkriese

To be on the safe side I would stick to mail if I were you. This would be appropriate for both groups you wish to outfit.

Crispvs

[Matthew Amt]

I am trying to outfit a small group 6-10 legionairres. The main era is to be the Augustan period, with pushes into the early Imperial period.

Some of this may depend on your definitions. I would say that "Augustan" IS "Early Imperial", though I certainly understand if you want to differentiate between them.

Quick references would include Connolly's "Greece and Rome at War" (or his smaller "Roman Army"), John Warry's "Warfare in the Classical World", or one of the Osprey books. You can find a variety of photos on the Legio XX site, though mostly parts and pieces and not many that will show the "whole story" for your purposes:

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/

Do either of these periods facilitate the use of segmentata?

As Crispus pointed out, the Kalkriese lorica is good for Augustan, or into the early Empire, but we're not certain of its details. The Corbridge lorica is certainly in use before 40 AD, though I'm not sure we can nail it down much tighter than that. Hamata is fine for either!

Do the helmets get much beyond Imperial Gallic "A"?

Sure, there is even some evidence that rather advanced Gallic helmets (E or F) were in use by the end of Augustus' reign. But it's generally safer to stick with Montefortinos and Coolus C or E, they'd be the common ones. By the mid-first century AD, you'd have the whole range of Coolus and Gallic helmets, plus Italic up through E, and a few old Montefortinos still hanging on.

Are the balteus' similar in structure between the periods?

Earlier is the narrow plates, either plain sheet or cast (or sheet with the design punched into the front so it *looks* like the cast plates), later the wider stamped plates come into use. But the older ones stay in use. The classic Augustan legionary wears 2 belts with narrow plates, slanted and crossed in the middle. One for the pugio, one for the gladius--you never see a shoulder baldric on a man with 2 belts. Either belt can have an apron, or neither, but not both at once. You can also just wear one belt, with or without apron, for both pugio and gladius.

Shield differences, Weapon differences...

The curve-sided shield is "safe" for Augustan, but good through Trajan. The rectangle MIGHT have been in use sometime in BC, but is generally thought safer after Augustus. Mainz gladius (or Fulham, or even hispaniensis) for Augustus, Pompeii later (with older styles still in use).

That what you need? Get books, man! Better than the Net!

Matthew

[QVINTVS ARTORIVS CORVINVS]

Thanks everyone!

I know I need to get the personal library updated :oops:

I live in a very one-horse town that has very little for decent literary resources. Perhaps an ebay hunt is in order.

Would the equipment in the first image be relatively close for your basic trooper ? (first couple behind the Centurion near the front)

For Centurions (second image), I believe this is fairly accurate for this period (although perhaps a bit over-decorated... all those Phalerae must equate him to a Roman Achilles!...
hock:
also Pteruges(sp) or no...

I have a final question about wearing Hamata... what would you wear over your tunic to keep the maille from destroying your wool? I know it can discolour and mangle heavy cotton and doc-cotton in relatively short order.

Gratiam habeo,

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

A subarmalis, which is a padded garment, made of leather or material I believe. Mine is of padded linen and a canvas type material, but for my segmentata. I would post a pic, but have not managed to syncronise image sizes for this site yet.

[SOCL]

Phillip, we're actually currently holding a discussion on the matter of a subarmalis for the hamata in a thread in this same forum, especially covering the topic of leather. Here's a link:
http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic.php?t=12084

[M. Demetrius]

Which pugio (or pugiones) would be reasonably acceptable for this period? Deepeeka models, for reference, or others would be helpful.

Thanks

[Crispvs]

If you are doing a mid first century AD impression, either of the new Deepeeka pugiones should be suitable. There is a problem though when it comes to a mid to late first century BC impression. For that you would need a dagger like the example from Oberaden or the one which was recently discussed on RAT which was up for auction, and you would need someone to make that as a special commission, as, to the best of my knowledge, no-one makes them. Unfortunately there is no evidence that I know of for the well known 1st century AD types that early.

Crispvs

[John M McDermott]

The arms and equipment for this period were of fabulous quality. The Pompeii gladius of later years was a downgrade. It would be cheaper to do a later period.

It used to be thought in re-enactor circles that there was a firm defining line between this time and the second half of the 1stc AD. Kalkriese destroyed all that where they found segmentata parts, circular stamped belt plates and swords that harkened back to the Republican period.

[Matt Lukes]

For Centurions (second image), I believe this is fairly accurate for this period (although perhaps a bit over-decorated... all those Phalerae must equate him to a Roman Achilles!...
hock:

Not so- there are many tombstones that show Centuriones and even a couple of standard bearers (an Aquilifer and I can't recall the other) who wear full harnesses of phalerae. It might be a mistake to consider them individual awards since I don't think we have any depictions of someone wearing just one or two...

[QVINTVS ARTORIVS CORVINVS]

Thanks Matt...

Strangely enough I never considered that. Being an ex-combat soldier, I tend to equate those sort of decorations to acts above and beyond and/or participation in specific theatres of war.

[M. Demetrius]

you would need a dagger like the example from Oberaden or the one which was recently discussed on RAT

So I don't go the rest of the way crazy, can you point me to that thread or a picture of what you're describing?

thanks