Ferrata - Ironclad. Conjecture alert!!!

[D B Campbell]

I thought the Sixth was an older legion raised by Pompey.

No, it was raised by Caesar in 52 BC, along with the V Alaudae (as mentioned in this thread).

Dando-Collins ascertains that the Sixth were from Nearer Spain, and were originally raised along with the Fourth.

Maybe he's thinking of VI Victrix, named Hispaniensis on one inscription?

[Tarbicus]

It wouldn't surprise me given the comments I've seen concerning his other books.

It gets very confusing :roll: So, that means Michael could well be right. If the Alaudae were identified by their crests (which you've pointed out to me before), a visual 'gag', there's even more possibility for their name being inspired by something visual (which you've also pointed out). :?

So we're back full circle to the possibility of the helmets as well :x

How on earth can Dando-Collins write an entire book about the Sixth and not even mention the other Sixth that Caesar raised???!!!

[L C Cinna]

I thought the Sixth was an older legion raised by Pompey.

No, it was raised by Caesar in 52 BC, along with the V Alaudae (as mentioned in this thread).

Dando-Collins ascertains that the Sixth were from Nearer Spain, and were originally raised along with the Fourth.

Maybe he's thinking of VI Victrix, named Hispaniensis on one inscription?

That's what I thought as well. maybe he mixed things up. Legio VI Victrix was raised by Octavianus and was stationed in Spain after the civil war. that's where it got its name "Hispaniensis" Maybe Collins mixed something there.

I always thought VI Ferrata was recruited together with V Alaudae but I don't remember the source. Just took a quick look at Caesar's 7th book of the Gallic Wars as it deals with the year the legion's supposed to be raised but couldn't find the name mentioned.
Does Dio mention them? Can't check myself as I don't have a copy of Dio at home atm.

[D B Campbell]

How on earth can Dando-Collins write an entire book about the Sixth and not even mention the other Sixth that Caesar raised???!!!

You must have been posting while I was writing, Jim!

The legionary "history" that you've summarised from Dando-Collins sounds suspicious. Does he cite any evidence for all of this stuff?

e.g., It seems unlikely that Pompey even had a legion VI, far less that he maintained it in Spain from 65 BC until 52 BC, but I'm willing to listen to the evidence.

And in 53 BC, Caesar certainly borrowed a legion from Pompey's consular allowance, but (afaik) it was numbered I, not VI, and (again, afaik) it is not specifically linked to Alesia.

[Tarbicus]

I stand corrected, or rather not be convinced by one version of events in future, or at least go back to the primary sources. :evil:

PM sent, Michael, but need to send yet another now.

[Tarbicus]

And in 53 BC, Caesar certainly borrowed a legion from Pompey's consular allowance, but (afaik) it was numbered I, not VI, and (again, afaik) it is not specifically linked to Alesia.

Ah, now he does say that Pompey sent his First legion for a different campaign, to Gaius Claudius Marcellus for the force against Parthia, where Caesar also had to send a legion, the Fifteenth, in 50 B.C.

He's very specific about Pompey loaning his Sixth to Caesar for the end of the Gallic campaign. :? Note that they did not take part in Alesia.

One source he quotes for the recall by Pompey of the Sixth from Caesar in the summer of 50 B.C. is Plutarch; Pompey sends Claudius Appius Pulcher to retrieve them and take them back to Spain, and Caesar was very not-too-chuffed to lose them, even giving each man of the Sixth 1,000 sesterces.

Additional comment: On the next page Dando-Collins mentions that Appius returns to Rome with the Fifteenth and First, and assures the Senate and Pompey that Caesar has his tail between his legs because Caesar had not his shown his fury at this (whereas he secretly was furious).

[Tarbicus]

In his Appendix B he lists the Imperial postings of both the different Sixth legions, Ferrata and Victrix, from 30 B.C. onwards.

I'll also add that he says in his notes on the sources he spent 34 years researching and writing the book.

[L C Cinna]

Plutarch only says that Pompeius sent 2 legions to Caesar and that Caesar had to send the soldiers back. He doesn't mention any numbers or names afaik.

The thing that confuses me a bit is that Plutarch writes that Caesar recruited only 1 legion from Gaul.

[Tarbicus]

Page 170:

"So then a unique situation arose that there were two Roman 6th Legions in this civil war, each born of Pompey's original 6th: one on Caesar's side, the other marching for the senatorial side under Scipio. The men of the 6th who had gone over to Caesar after Pharsalus had no desire to fight their former comrades of the the 6th, men now serving Scipio who were their friends, relatives, and fellow townsmen, and they'd apparently stipulated this when they signed up for Caesar. So Caesar was not to include his now celebrated 6th in the task force he assembled for an invasion of Africa."