Scutum designs from late Republican to early(ish) Imperial!

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Hello, correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't been able to find a topic listed for this subject! I was wondering what logos etc one would find on republican scutums? And would they have just continued to utilize these as the scutum changed to it curved rectangular form, or were the designs unique to the Imperial age?

[FAVENTIANVS]

http://www.littlebigmenstudios.com/cata ... /24_90_135

[Matthew Amt]

Ave!

Unfortunately, you'll probably find that there isn't much discussion because there isn't much information. Many Republican scuta might simply have been plain, with no emblem. Since we don't know just when they might have started using unit motifs--or even IF they did--AND we don't know just when each particuar shape of shield came into use or went out, trying to come up with something coherent is next to impossible.

Guesswork and conjecture, and darn few facts, I'm afraid.

Valete,

Matthew

[M. Demetrius]

So then, if a Late Republic group decided to use this or that generally accepted Roman blazon element, would the rank and file of other groups get upset?

And on that topic, in a conversation with another Roman reenactor, I said that I believed the "vertical snail shell", or as he called it "Back to back unicorn horns" were a painted representation of the wooden spines that were common on older Republican Roman shields, having borrowed that idea from a typical Celtish pattern. What say you?

I'm asking because we're seriously considering having that as a facet of our group.

[richsc]

I'm actually carving a wooden boss and "unicorn horns' for a new shield for exactly that reason. The biggest problem was carving out the hole for the grip, but I found the perfect tool for that. I meant to do a photo shoot of the project sooner or later.

[Tarbicus]

And on that topic, in a conversation with another Roman reenactor, I said that I believed the "vertical snail shell", or as he called it "Back to back unicorn horns" were a painted representation of the wooden spines that were common on older Republican Roman shields, having borrowed that idea from a typical Celtish pattern. What say you?

Thunderbolts, as wielded by Jupiter, along with his lightning bolts that can also be seen on scuta. Note the eagle (symbol of Jupiter) also holds them and lightning bolts. Absolutely 100% convinced of it.

[M. Demetrius]

The biggest problem was carving out the hole for the grip, but I found the perfect tool for that.

All right, I give up, c'mon--spit it out! What tool??

All my experiences with that have been wretchedly difficult.

[richsc]

Funny I didn't see this question seven years ago. The tool is called a "spoon gouge" which looks and acts just like an ice cream scoop. I would really like a smaller flap sander for my angle grinder though: that would help with the bulk of the work.

something like this:

http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2001306...OgodjjIAaw

[Gunthamund Hasding]

well I always asked myself how could and Caesar's soldier differentiate if he kills an pompeian or an Caesarian. I suppose that a part of the answer would be The scutum one of the best (easiest) things too see when fighting someone. Another possibility is that Pompeiand were red and the >Caesarians orange :?

can someone elaborate on this as well please

[AMELIANVS]

Pompeians red and Caesarians orange :? :wink: -well different colored dress maybe but in that case something like red Pompeians vs white Caesarians would work so much more better.

But we know that one of the recognition signs in the civil wars of late republic was names of the high commanders being written or inserted on the surface of the shield.

[Gunthamund Hasding]

@ pavel
yeah but how would it work please lemme read what is wrriten inside your shield.

well the colours were just picked up for certain reasons: orange for the revolutions roaming arround (Ukraine eg) like Ceasar was and red is the old Republicans (look in US)

but letting aside jokes I am really interested if we do kow something about

[AMELIANVS]

Well there are mentions in Caesars civil war about that names on shields and also in the work of his general who continued his civil war with Hispanic war and Im almost 100 percent sure it is mentioned in some earlier sources as well.

We have some designs preserved from late Republic and very early empire monuments but we cant say for sure if it shows actual shield symbols of those times or if its just a result of artist imagination although I believe it is at least based on once real existing shield blazons and that shields during late republic were already unit differentiated.

My favorite is this relief from France dated usually between 30 bc-1AD.They clearly have elaborate designs on their shields here.

P.S:for late Roman enthusiasts-I would interpret their helmets being likely ridge helmet type if this was from 4th century for example :wink:

[AMELIANVS]

@ pavel
yeah but how would it work please lemme read what is wrriten inside your shield.

I think that thing with names worked enough because they would likely not use it at all if it was for nothing.Civil war armies also issued watchwords for recognition.Famous story by Tacitus from the battle of Cremona points on shields playing major role in recognition who is who.

[Antonius Insulae]

Here's my collection of Republican scuta emblems! I've taken them from photographs of re-enactors, and a few are from Deepeeka and Armae stores.

Animals were a common motif in Republican Roman shields, as well as geometric patterns. Some are derived from Geltic shield designs, some from other Latin peoples in Italy.
Most used animal emblems were probably the five ones, which were first used as standards of republican legions: aqvila (eagle), lupus (wolf), eqvus (horse), porcus (boar) and (mino)taurus (bull / minotaur). Other possible pictures would include capricornus, scorpio, stars, crescent moons, floral leafs, Gorgoneion (head of Medusa, derived from the Greeks), Pegasus, Cerberus, Chimaera etc. Some of these shields show also a triskelion, formed of three rotating legs or wings, and even an octopus.

At Imperial times the lighting bolts, unicorn horns, eagle wings and tabulae ansatae (the slate where they wrote the legions name and/or number) became more common.

We cannot be sure of the colours of most of the shields, but the second picture shows a mosaic of a scutum from circa 150 BCE, and that shield is white with yellow edges.

The name of the commander could have been painted onto the front of the shield, so that both friend and foe could see easily to which army its carrier belongs.

[Nathan Ross]

My favorite is this relief from France dated usually between 30 bc-1AD.They clearly have elaborate designs on their shields here

Yes, and interestingly all the soldiers have different shield designs... Which might actually prove that 'unit blazons' were unknown until the late Roman period... :neutral:

For the republic, there's not much to go on, as others have said. Most of the reconstructed shield designs you see around the place are largely imaginary, or based on much earlier or later examples.

There are a couple of possibilities from late republican or Augustan sarcophagi and monuments. Jim Bowers posted this link in another thread on the theme: Osprey 'Republican Roman Army'. Look at the bottom of p.41 and the top of p.43.