Attaching a plume to a Montefortino helmet?

[Cornelius Quintus]

Ave omnes,

how was a plume connected to a Montefortino helmet? Many originals feature a crest knob.

Was a plume holder plugged on or just fixed by a kind of binding ?

[Peroni]

Are you meaning a feather plume or horse hair Heiko?

[Cornelius Quintus]

Ave Adrian,

I'm thinking of a horsehair plume
- like the incredible one on my imperial Italic D, made by a very skilled Batavian craftsman :wink:

[Peroni]

:oops:

I would suggest that it would attach in a similar way to the coolus types with crest spikes. Either with a central pin vertical to the crest support, or a horizontal pin going through the crest support from side to side.

But isn't it feathers that are referred to in the ancient texts? black/red/purple?

[Cornelius Quintus]

Ave Adrian,

you're right, three feathers are the most common plume version.

But however, some helmets seem to be equipped with an ornamented, solid crest knob. No pin-holes visible to me.

So I'm wondering, if the shape of the knob (like a mushroom head on a stem) would allow something to put on and bind with a thread... :?

[Matthew Amt]

Most Montefortino knobs that I've seen have a vertical hole in the top. Build your crest with a pin to go in that. Both my Montefortino crests (one hair, one feathers) were made with brass wire wound around the hair or feathers, with the end sticking down to form the pin. Also I added a string to tie around the knob to keep it in place better. Seems to work fine!

Matthew

[Cornelius Quintus]

Ave Matthew,

sorry for the delay - many thanks, I'll try it that way.

[Poftim]

How did they attach the feathers? Also, what was the difference between using feathers and horsehair? Was it a cavalry,infantry thing?

[Matthew Amt]

Well, we don't know how it was done back then. What I did was to wind wire around the shafts of the feathers, at the bottom, secure them with glue, and make the end of the wire point down so that it could go into the hole in the crest knob.

Polybius describes helmet crests at the time of the Punic Wars as being 3 black and/or purple feathers. But by the time of Caesar it seems that a horsehair "tail" is used instead. We don't really know when the change came about, or why.

Matthew

[john m roberts]

I believe there's one Montefortino with a crest tube soldered to the back of the knob.

[drsrob]

I believe there's one Montefortino with a crest tube soldered to the back of the knob.

Correct. Robinson thought that it was a repair.

In a Samnite grave a Montefortino helmet has been found, which had a transverse iron ridge. It was fixed to the skull at each outer end, but the center was clamped to the base of the crest knob. It had five tubes, probably intended for feathers.

[Peroni]

I believe there's one Montefortino with a crest tube soldered to the back of the knob.

There is also an example with side 'slide' tubes (of a fashion) for crest attachment.

[Thersites]

I believe we should be careful with this particular helmet. It is a Roman helmet, carrying a Latin inscription 'MVLVS' on the neckguard, but it was found in an Iberial burial at Pozo Moro (Albacete), probably late Third-early Second century BC. It was deliberately damaged, with at least four sword cuts, three of them from above while the helmet was placed on a flat surface. Anyway, the point is the helmet was probably captured by an Iberian, and probably modified, perhaps adding or changing these very side tubes you mention, that by the way probably correspond with one of Strabo's statements about plumes in Iberian-Lusitania-Celtiberian helmets

[Matthew Amt]

Okay, added a new photo, a close-up of the 2 crests I made for my Montefortino:

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/crest6.jpg

It's on the Crests page of the Legio XX site,

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/crests.html

Mind you, these are very hypothetical reconstructions! But there is not much to go on, and they work.

Valete,

Matthew