Late Roman Segmentata?!?!

[Hibernicus]

In Liversegde's book about Roman furniture a photo shows a reconstructed small wood box that uses a lobate hinge

[Paulus Claudius Damianus]

This armor part may be most an pectoral decoration (to Squamata or hamata) rather than a piece of Segmentata? What do you think about?

[Virilis]

This armor part may be most an pectoral decoration (to Squamata or hamata) rather than a piece of Segmentata? What do you think about?

My thoughts too, Damien!

[Tarbicus]

This armor part may be most an pectoral decoration (to Squamata or hamata) rather than a piece of Segmentata? What do you think about?

In isolation, perhaps. But the site included lots of seg parts of Newstead type (hinges, fittings, etc) in abundance.

[Peroni]

I can't see how a pectoral plate like this could fit in with a Newstead type cuirass :?

I am of the same opinion as Damien.

[Tarbicus]

Hmmm. I'm not even sure that item's from the finds, there's no mention of anything like it in the JRMES article, nor a drawing. But there is part of a girdle hoop, as well as Corbridge style fittings.

That photo may well be as you guys say, but there were definitely seg parts in a fabrica dated to the last quarter of the 3rd-C. No mention of scales.

[Bran ap Maclou]

What is surprising is that I thought that pectoral plates were linked all along the side to the rings of a hamata for example.

But on the right side of the piece, you can watch 2 holes, then nothing, then two holes again and nothing and finally one more hole on the upper edge of the piece. So even if it evocates, in my opinion, rather half a pectoral than something else, could it be the hinges fixing holes of a seg ?

I really wonder if these hole series could not fit with this following breast plate but drilled in order to show the decorum.
http://www.armatura.connectfree.co.uk/jrmes/j0601b.htm

However, the general shape is rather in favor to a pectoral. Do you see on this picture what I mean.
http://www.imperivm.org/img/articulos/0 ... ta_004.jpg

Last question : Are you sure that this can't be from a gladiatorial background ?

Bye

Greg

[Tarbicus]

The finds were within the fabrica of a very long established Roman fort. I believe the reasoning behind the seg finds dated so late is that those legions stationed over very lengthy periods stuck in one place saw little need to adopt new armour. Where there were a lot of legion reassignments and changes there seems to be a wider variety of armour types.

Note the large gap to the bottom left of the pic Daniele posted



Looks like the shape of seg hook eye plates to me, where the girth hoops attached. Segs weren't of a wholly consistent pattern, and personally see no reason why a seg dated to so late would be a carbon copy of earlier examples.

[TITVS SABATINVS AQVILIVS]

It's seems military, from an Aurrecoechea's interview:

The image on the right is the bib of armor found in excavation
One of the workshops of the Roman Legio VII. This is a unique piece
Mainly due to its decoration. Aurrecoechea stresses that see familiar pieces
Similar decorated with an eagle, but no other has a trophy below
Eagle (the trophy is simplified through a helmet and armor) as
With this. So far succeeded in locating Leon three workshops, one
The first century of the Legio VI, which specializes in bronze and was found In 1998 at Calle General Mola. The second document, also of the first century, He was specialized in forging and was located in 1997 on the street Prayers, While the third, the Legio VII found in the Plaza Conde moon in 2002.


other article:


The Roman Leon, the 'missing link'
Bethlehem Molleda

LEON. The Roman military camp de Leon was the "most important" of Hispania. Of this there is no doubt. "Leon was a hotbed of radiation and culture, however, had not been studied in depth until now, when it could be the" missing link "of the Empire. And so it has proved. Elsewhere, as in Britain and Germany had nuclei military radiaban military culture to the surroundings and even impregnated civilian culture. However, Leon was outside of this influence and creates its own source of radiation. "The camp was oblivious to the fashions."

One could say that it was "a bit outdated, had its own local workshops and was away from outside influence, as evidenced by the armor found in the third century, which is no longer used in Europe."

This was said in an interview with ABC archaeologist Madrid Joaquin Aurrecoechea, who started in 2001 a thesis at the University of Leon, led by Professor Angel Morillo, all materials in the camps Roman de Leon and Astorga and that relates to the rest of the findings of Hispania.

The researcher explains that the first workshop legionnaire armor manufacturing located in Hispania is in Leon and century I. He assured that "documentary evidence is guaranteed by the production of military objects in the settlement of the Legio from the first century until the end of the third century", which, in his view, "it is not unusual since the Roman army used to procure equipment he needed by the production in their own workshops or through private workshops working for the army, the latter being under some form of state supervision or control ".

Spare unfinished, manufacturing waste and to recycle parts, as well as furnaces and crucibles are the documentary evidence provided by the investigator to support his theory. As explained, "so far has been made to locate in Leon three workshops, all located in places quite forthcoming, although not in the same timeline." Two of them, I century dating from the last decades of life of the first unit that occupied the camp, the Legio VI. Both were complementary, one specializing in the work of bronze, found in 1998 among the Calle General Mola and street Moon Plaza del Conde de la ciudad de Leon (reservoir known as' The Praviana ') and the other, forging, located in 1997 between street Prayers and Ramiro III. Data from 50 to 70 AD The latter was out of the defensive fence and the motive was probably to avoid the risk of fire.

In the third workshop, the Legio VII, it was devoted to the development of a particular type of armor: "loricae segmentatae." This was located in 2002 in an excavation of the Plaza del Conde Luna. The excavation provided a large group of fixtures between the military stressed that a good number of pieces of armor type called "segmented" (loricae segmentatae), whose particularity is that they are made with sheets of iron, linked with bronze brooches. This finding showed the manufacture of this type of armor in Camp Leo.

Revolution time
The findings segmented armor in the camps of legionnaires Leon aroused great interest among foreign researchers since "have revolutionized the chronology that you gave to this type of armor."

According to the archaeologist, "the British and German researchers, based on the outcome of their excavations premises, believed that the Romans stopped using the segmented armor at the beginning of the third century. However, the findings show that the Romans leoneses continued using them until the end of the third century and early fourth century and, in addition, their use was not sporadic or residual, but were still fully in force. "

"Spain has always been very backward in archeology military. It was suspected that there were workshops as in the rest of Europe but had not yet been located. The surprise was now begin to locate them in a specific area and over in a chronology in which it was assumed that the belongings found no longer used, "he explained.

In the second half of the third century, the Roman military equipment suffered a very drastic change in terms of fashion, in terms of manufacturing.

Before it was common for parts to construct workshops legionaries, but from this third century, it began to be manufactured in workshops centralized. This happened in Europe, but not Leon. "Leon still self-sufficiently and continued with a fashion that the rest was last used pectoral and armor and the rest of the empire no longer. This was very surprised, because this implies that the Legio VII stayed for many years and centuries parked on the same site and fashions become outdated and far from the currents of influence. "

Recently, this year, some furnaces have been discovered in the street Prayers and some bent on denominarles the fourth workshop Roman appeared in Leon. However, the researcher argues that it is not a workshop, as they have no associated material and manufacturing furnaces are probably either bread or ceramic baking.

Aurrecoechea is moved to Madrid and Malaga after approving some competitions at the University Andalusian. At present, makes his thesis at the University of Leon, led by professed Angel Morillo. He analyzed the workshops dedicated to the production of military equipment at the Second Congress of Military Roman Archeology, held in Leon in 2004 and whose records have not yet been published.

Valete,

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

I've always thought in Canada people also spoke French! hock: Or just in Québéc?

Have you tried with www.babelfish.altavista.com ?

On a plus de Chance de trouver des Canadiens parlant Français au Québéc que dans la partie anglophone du Canada. Vive la Nouvelle France! Vive le Quebec!!! (plusieurs des meilleurs artistes triomphant en France sont Québequois ou... Belges!)

Well, they do resist speaking English.....whats good for one, is good for others!

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Thanks for the Translation Daniele! That is very interesting information!