constructing a vexillum & the legio II adiutrix pia fide

[petrinus]

oh and this site lists a ton of specs on legions, it referenced the dual symbology but said the pegasus was awarded them later, so im sure they just didnt discard the capricorn. check this link out though its promising

http://www.unrv.com/military/legions.php

[Matt Lukes]

your 3rd image shows the two together, well a horse and rider, (sometimes in mytholgy the pegasus has no wings just flys, maybe wings were an artsy way to say fast horse?!) and on another site, had i saved it to favorites....i saw it also, i'll check my history and hunt it up.
either way i prefer the capricorn i think

Yeah, I hadn't even realized that until you mentioned it- it sure looks like a winged horse to me, hence a Pegasus

the coins you have are the the 193-197AD legIIapf commorative coin? for their support of severus in his push for the purple? i so want one of those coins. im not seeing the attachment/diagram?

I don't have the coin myself, just an image but I suspect it's the one you think. It was given me by a friend who is a Roman coin dealer and that sounds like what he told me (if I remember correctly).

oh and hey is that downward sloping hand thingy metal? brass, iron? got any made? molds? contacts for one? reasonably priced?

I would suspect it's cast copper alloy- I can't se it being other than metal, and iron would be a little plain (and it'd rust). Not sure where you'd get one though except having one made by a bronze foundry.

[Matt Lukes]

ok, now maybe im missing the bus on this one but what joins the two together, loops, rings what have ya, that gives it connectivity and strength? riveted? or? if im being a blister tell me, and i'll go google my night away, morning....daaaaaaaaaamn 0136?! lol, but you seem knowledgable and helpful, so if got me on this great

I just used a copper rivet to connect them, and solder to keep them from rotating relative to one another. Easy The flag is light, so a ton of strength isn't necessary...

[Matt Lukes]

http://www.livius.org/le-lh/legio/ii_adiutrix.html

Matt,
some info on the legio II apf, though they leave some things out like hadrian serving as tribune and nero actually started them up in 66 ad to repress a jewish rebellion. this site shows various iconography but not together, just validates the two seperately, but ive seen more of it out there. i'll keep looking.

Indeed, that as (dupondius?) clearly shows the Pegasus half of LEGII's animal totems- it's a nice one too.

[petrinus]

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, look at that image again, mind you ive got a lot of tired soldier going on, squint to assimilate lack of sleep, and i know your an artist -sooooo,... tell me that doesnt look like a rider rather than what a wing ought to look like, and now that ive tried to desperately defend my retardation, ....howd i do? lol

[Matt Lukes]

It still looks like a wing to me- if it's a rider, he's laying back pretty far...

[Rutilia]

Leg II Apf is the Legion my lot are building things for since we are all former Marines and the legion's honorific is rather similar to that of the US Marines. Emotional stuff ya know.

I have read that the pegasus may have been awarded to them by Vespasian, along with the honorifics, for their siding with him during the civil wars. Apparently II Aug also has a pegasus and that one was commanded by Vespasian in Britain. The idea seems to come from the action where Vespasian was first hailed as Imperator in Alexandria in 69 AD, and the pegasus is thought to be the horse of the East. The commonalities between to the two legions where Vespasian are concerned seem to be the driving force here.

The theory that goes with this is that the II Apf has a deis natalis of December 69 AD..when they became an iustae legionis. If that is so, the Capricornis might also be a symbol for them.

Other symbols could have been the dolphin and trident..there is a grave stelae with an upright trident and a pair of dolphins flanking it. One reason the shield design with the twined dolphins seems easy to attach to this legion.

OTOH, there is another stelae from II Apf with a clipeus on it and an interesting arrangement of thunderbolts and spirals on it. I've read it also has the gorgon medusa head on the boss, but the explanation given for that was that it might have been carved to honor the individual's auxilliary status before becoming a legionary.

A lot of supposition perhaps, but it's there to be considered. This bit comes from H.M.D. Parker's The Roman Legions, pages 104 - 107.

Our lot has one with the pegasus on it and one with just the letters and numbers...we even have one in blue instead of red. But that is what we have done thus far.

Rutilia

[Caballo]

You might want to look out "Warriors of Rome" by Simkins http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/071372 ... e&n=283155

Published a while ago, but has a colour painting of a reconstructed legionary of Legio II Adiutrix from the gravestone of Caius Castricius Victor http://www.romanarmy.com/cms/component/ ... Itemid,94/ of your legion wearing the helmet that is associated with the legion- the Gallic I. One of the preserved ones looks like this http://www.romancoins.info/f2005%20Aquincumhelmet.JPG with another here http://www.legionsix.org/gallicILside.jpg . Note the side plume holders for feathers shown on the gravestone.
A good choice of legion- not many have this much info!

Cheers

Caballo

[petrinus]

actually rutilia, the capricorn was their initial iconography and later the pegasus was infact awarded by vespasian. ive learned alot in the past 24 hours...lol, LEGIO I adiutrix was the misenum crew, and LEGIO II was from ravenna. i have a potential ancestral connection to either of these legions but i have some particular love for LEGIIAPF because i have an artifact that was presumably theirs that my wife got me before we were married, strange how things align, eh?

[petrinus]

http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic.php?t=9867

check out my work in progress!

[petrinus]

thanks caballo, appreciatte the links, thats good stuff, anything anyone can provide on LEGIIAPF, always a help