German Limes

[QFirmus]

Greetings to all,

I am trying to research into Roman occupation of Germania in the mid to late 1st century. Any refs or books that can be recommended? All mine are basic survey books, even the military ones, don't go in to much detail. Is there much known?

Saw the Limes Museum link in another thread, if I spoke German, that would be more helpful, but alas, I got B's German in school, but never learned the language. :?

Thanks in advance

[Peroni]

Try Jona's website.. http://www.livius.org/germinf.html

[Alexandr K]

Hi,
I'm afraid the literature is mostly in German language.

Try this site:
Limes

Greetings
Alexandr

[Marcus Julius]

I've just recently picked up a couple of books in German, myself. If I wasn't worried about copyright infringement, I'd think about printing/posting interpretations (Since I don't have any certification in the language, they would be "interpretations", not "translations")

[Praefectusclassis]

Hi Brian,
It is okay to quote bits from a book for the purpose of discussion if you refer to the correct author, book title & page. In fact, I would strongly encourage you to do that!

[Jona Lendering]

Try Maureen Carroll, [amazon] Romans, Celts & Germans. The German Provinces of Rome[/amazon] (2001).

[Robert Vermaat]

Try Maureen Carroll, Romans, Celts & Germans. The German Provinces of Rome (2001).

I second that. Nice book from Tempus, not expensive.

[QFirmus]

Thanks one and all, I will check the links and check into the books.

Pax,

[QFirmus]

OK I looked at the websites, and will need to sit and review them more. Ordered the book. SO I am sure answers are coming, but...

Wondering about teh limes in other places besides England. Are theremileforts or fortlets, smaller garrisons along the German limes? Or are those features of the wall. And are there archeaological plans or layouts of these if they existed? That is the specific info I am after, though I want to understand the Romans in Germania better broadly.

Thanks again,

[Robert Vermaat]

Wondering about teh limes in other places besides England. Are theremileforts or fortlets, smaller garrisons along the German limes? Or are those features of the wall. And are there archeaological plans or layouts of these if they existed? That is the specific info I am after, though I want to understand the Romans in Germania better broadly.

Yes and no. The structure of Hadrian's Wall is unique as a wall. The rest of the Limes consisted of turrets and casteles. In The Netherlands, castles usually guard rivers flowing into the Lower Rhine (now Old Rhine). Halfway Germany, the 'Upper Germanic Limes' (Obergermanischer Limes) goes inland, formed originally by a low earthen bank, guarded by towers. When it turns into an east-West direction, this is called the Raetian Limes (Rätischer Limes), the line is formed by a small stone wall. After it hits the Danube, it's turets and forts again to the Black Sea. Most of the Limes in the Middle East is formed bt forts and strategic roads, I think, again different from the Limes in Europe.

There are enough books written in German showing very bit of the Limes in maps and drawings..

[QFirmus]

Dang,

Guess I have to learn German (again, or at least for reals this time)

Thanks though, even that little bit gives me a way to start searching for more info and understanding the context of Germania better

Thank you,

[Muzzaguchi]

Hi Alan,

There is a real lack of sources for campaigns in Germany in the mid-late first century AD. Archaeology is very useful. Brian Jones' The Emperor Domitian has some speculation as does Barbara Levick's 'Domitian and the Provicnes' Latomus 41 50-73. Otherwise there are some passages in Tacitus, Pliny, Frontinus' Strategemata (archaeology has now established that Frontinus was governor in 82/83), Statius' Silvae and a couple of other references which may refer to it.

In regard to the limes one of Froninus' stratagems seems to refer to it being laid out: 1.3.10. There is a passage which has long been regarded as interpolated in Frontinus' de agrorum qualitate which has 'Two straight lines were laid out, a given distance apart, along which a great high rampart was to be constructed to protect our supply lines.' (erant dandi intervebiente certo itineris spatio duo rigores ordinati, quibus in tutelam commeandi ingens vallorum adsurgeret moles). I believe that this preface may be genuine but it has been excluded from editions of the corpus agrimensorum since 1848. Even Goesius omitted it.

oops I have digressed. Sorry

Cheers

Murray

[Eleatic Guest]

Check this quality page out for a brief, but complete account of the whole Roman Limes system.

Whole Limes system: http://www.antikefan.de/Themen/militaer ... lagen.html

German Lines: http://www.antikefan.de/Bilder/limes/limes.html

Castles on the German Limes: http://www.antikefan.de/laender/deutschland.html

You may be surprised to find out that the Roman Limes system in fact outshone the contemporary Han Chinese wall both in terms of quality and quantity. Despite being not perfect, the Hadrian Wall may well have been the most advanced defensive line until the Ming Chinese Wall (16th-17th century AD), that is as long as it was manned and remained in use.

[QFirmus]

Thanks very much. In a very short order, I have several sources to check and read up on.

[Robert]

Perhaps I can add something. In the Netherlands, the castella were of a different shape then elswere along the Limes. Because the were all situated on the southbank of the Rhine river and linked together by the Limes road running on the narrow sandy deposits along the shores, Dutch castella appear to be all "squashed". The via principalis runs through the middle, dividing the castellum in two almost equal portions. The T shape of the road is evident in all cases, but the castellum on general seems to have but 3 gates, the north gate facing the river and often leading to a quay or mooring facility. Because of the use of the river, embankments with palisades as in Germany do not seem in evidence. Communications were, as in Germany, from watchtower to watchtower.