Scholarly colloqium on the rearward german limes

[Simplex]

in Michelstadt (D) on March 19th and 20th 2010 (including field trip on 20th)
for further reference (in German) :
[url:10orgbo9]http://www.region-odenwald.de/odenwaldlimes/100127%20Einladung.pdf[/url]
[url:10orgbo9]http://www.region-odenwald.de/odenwaldlimes/Einladungsflyer_2010_End.pdf[/url]
Anybody going there ?
(I feel tempted to do so, if my job allows for it)

Greez

Simplex

[Jona Lendering]

What are the results?

[Simplex]

O.K. fellow RATeresses and RATers,
.....I've been to Michelstadt, alright -- did somebody of you go there ? [They expected 200 participants, but some 400 applied, so the excursion on the followings day was closed for me]
As far as I'm concerned, and the fact that I was offline for a good week nonwithstanding, I'm still under the impression of that event.
Mostly because I'm still not sure what to make of my notes and if I got all the (good news) right. :wink:
On top of that I'm not sure whether I have the time to decently translate what I wrote down.
In short a overview:
The event was not a mere commercial for DR. E. Schallmayer's book on the Odenwald limes. It brought a lot of more worthwile informations.
Yes, the touristical and commercial aspect played a certain role as mirrored by the introduction of the day (which I only partially got to know because I arrived late), the reports of the manageresse of the local tourism alliance, Kornelia Brauer, and the new managing director of Theiss-Verlag, Volker Hühn. But most other lectures/reports prove at least being informative, although the quality was a little bit (sometimes more, sometimes less) marred by the lack of clearness and readability of the accompanying graphics/photographs.
1. Alhough the rearward line of the limes (called Odenwald-Limes OL) was not included in the appliance of the Obergermanisch-Raetische-Limes (ORL) for the "World Heritage" label of the UNESCO, the "upper instances" of the "cultural authorities" in the german federal states Baden-Württemberg, Hessen (Hassia) and Bayern (Bavaria) seem to have come to the conclusion that excluding the rearward lines from this label as a permanent solution would be detrimental. So therefore the "Limesprojekt" does also involve the OL along with a quest "to associate"
the OL to the ORL in a similar way like it was done with the Antonine Wall in Scotland. (BTW: the Odenwald-Kreis [=Odenwald County ?] has developped a partnership to one of the scottish counties along the Antonine Wald -- Falkirk ?!)
2. The distribution of finances for this project will be shifted a little bit more towards the OL, the ORL still playing the major part of the project .
3. A certain part of the references towards finds and findings on the OL is still being referenced to the results of research of the ORL.
4.The first highlight was Dr. Holger Göldner ( Hassian Authority of [ancient] Mmonuments) referring about "Non-destructive Prospections on the OL". After a short reference to older methods of research and the historical development of the local research he gave an short summary of the use of modern methods mostly refering to what was done on the ORL in that aspect along with giving an outlook on what was planned.
In short, while the surveilance/prospection of the ORL by geomagbetics, ground-radar and LIDAR (airborne 3D-Laser-Scanning)
[url:1wx5rzto]http://www.deutsche-limeskommission.de/fileadmin/dlk/images/dlk/pdfs/Der_Limes_3_2009_2.pdf[/url] [in German]
(EDIT: [url:1wx5rzto]http://luftbildarchiv.univie.ac.at/index.php?id=50605[/url] [ in English] as an overview and introduction)
is well underways and nearly finished, there will be a similar surveillance of the OL already underways to be finished until 2012.
There already have been a lot of findings through this. e.g. The predecessors of the stone watchtowers are more easily to be found thus.
Some new findings on the castella have been acchieved. But more is expected to come.
5. Thomas Becker M.A. the Hassian "man-in-charge-of-limes-affairs" lectured about the "Thoughts about the tactical structures on the OL".
He first demonstrated what "tactical structures" means in a modern context, the going towards "the beef".
On the level of the castella he stated that newer findings rather confirmed the older findings on both the ORL and the OL.
As far as the towers are concerned, reviewing the sizes brought about findings about groupings of sizes of the towers based on a "median" rather than the "average". The findings, however are still based on a limited number of towers rather than the full number, so findings may vary a bit in the future. The groupings show a slight increase in size southwards and clear boundaries in among the groupings.
(WP 10/8 serves both as an example how old and new methods of research/prospection work and an an "average" in size and history)
Together with the vast number of inscriptions in (stone) castella, baths, temples and watchtowers on the OL, which is without equal in other situations, it shows that there are clearly tactical sectors and that the strongpoints of each sector does not lie in the middle but rather in the boundaries eg. Obernburg/Schlossau/Neckarburken/Bad Wimpfen. The middle sector has Neckarburken with 2 castella, as later is referrred Obernburg at the beginning also was a two-castella place, too, but the numerus got shifted later on, finally stationed in Wörth which is nearly at "stones' throw from Obernburg, Bad Wimpfen (at the presumed end of the line) got the Numerus castella at Kochendorf within eyes' view.
Schlossau, however is something different, as will be mentioned later.
The chains of command in the respective cohors castella are different (we have a praefectus, tribunus, and a centurio of the LEGXXII pf from Mogontiacum in command at the cohors castella) the cause of which is not completely clear yet(, which is complicated by th fact that the larger units have been changed out with each other in the course of time).
So we have basically 2 parts of the OL , the one going south from Obernburg and one going south from Neckarburken.
Part Two will follow as time permits. ( If you like you may have my notes in German posted, but these should be taken with care.)

Greez

Siggi
EDIT 21042010: Link added: Introduction to aerial prospection in English

[Jona Lendering]

Thanks. We ought to have more posts like this (and a subforum where people can file their notes about conferences or summaries of books).

[mcbishop]

Thanks. We ought to have more posts like this (and a subforum where people can file their notes about conferences or summaries of books).

Indeed, reportage like that is an exceedingly good idea and it is slightly surprising that in these days of digital burbling on all fronts that many conferences still seem reticent in publicising what happens. Usually, a few years later a dead-tree volume of proceedings plops out, by which time it is either ignored or old-hat (and almost certainly unaffordable), whereas it was cutting-edge when it happened. Abstracts go some of the way to answering this need but inevitably authors don't want to give away the best bits before they give their papers.

Mike Bishop

[D B Campbell]

Many thanks for your excellent report, Siggi. :wink:

The event was not a mere commercial for DR. E. Schallmayer's book on the Odenwald limes.

Der Odenwaldlimes (apparently not available from Amazon?!)

1. Alhough the rearward line of the limes (called Odenwald-Limes OL) was not included in the appliance of the Obergermanisch-Raetische-Limes (ORL) for the "World Heritage" label of the UNESCO, the "upper instances" of the "cultural authorities" in the german federal states Baden-Württemberg, Hessen (Hassia) and Bayern (Bavaria) seem to have come to the conclusion that excluding the rearward lines from this label as a permanent solution would be detrimental. So therefore the "Limesprojekt" does also involve the OL along with a quest "to associate" the OL to the ORL in a similar way like it was done with the Antonine Wall in Scotland.

Interesting. I did not know this.

The chains of command in the respective cohors castella are different (we have a praefectus, tribunus, and a centurio of the LEGXXII pf from Mogontiacum in command at the cohors castella) the cause of which is not completely clear yet(, which is complicated by th fact that the larger units have been changed out with each other in the course of time).

Again, very interesting. On the British frontiers, we have always been wary of assuming that the commanders of the various forts had any wider responsibility to their sector of the frontier, which was surely under the authority of the provincial governor.

Odenwald Region web site says: "Die Vorträge des Kolloquiums werden in der Reihe Saalburg-Schriften hrsg. vom Römerkastell Saalburg publiziert": I look forward to reading them.

[Simplex]

Hi y'all,
1. Thanks for the kudos
2. [url:nkzcmv6g]http://www.amazon.de/Odenwaldlimes-Entlang-r%C3%B6mischen-Grenze-zwischen/dp/3806223092/ref=sr_1_30?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1269972067&sr=1-30[/url]
3. ...should have said "....the chains of command were different ...."
4. I'll definitely buy the kolloquium report, i still have a lot to read here.Maybe there will even be more informations ...

Greez

Simplex

[Simplex]

Hi folks,
...mercy, please, I've been experiencing trouble getting online, so ......
Now on to Part II:
All this was to be „deepened“ by Dr. Jörg Scheuerbrandt’s presentation on the “stone epoch” of the OL
( Zur Steinbauphase des Odenwaldlimes—Das Bauprogramm von 145/146 nChr) which he attributed to a “building programme” of Antoninus Pius in 145 and 146 AD.
This was mainly achieved by recent reviewing of the copious inscriptions along the OL.
(As byproduct of a closer look on the preserved parts of the stone-towers and a closer scrutiny of the closer vicinity of the towers led to the conviction that even the stone-towers didn’t have an outward gallery – I haven’t got any appropriate expression for “Kragsteine” und “Traufspuren” which Dr. Scheuerbrandt used in this context)
It became clearer in this process that the building of the “first stage” with wooden watchtowers and a limes-road
must have been taken place somewhere between 110 and 115 AD, the closing of the palisades probably in 119 and 120 AD. (Based on the dating of the palisade at Marköbel [from 2002 ?? – also published in HessenArch 2002] and more recent findings. Then the “stone-age” took over in 145 and 146 AD. Moving forward to the line of the ORL seemed to have taken place somewhere between 158 and 164 AD. (Also with a wooden-phase first, at least
with the watchtowers and smaller castellan. More on the controversy on “say when” will follow later.)
Taking Neckarburken as a case study with its cohort and numerus castella, we can exactly date an inscription in the numerus castellum after the reigning emperors name (Antoninus Pius), his exact year of tribunship ( the 12th, starting Dec.10th 145 AD, his consulship ( COS IV = the fourth time—after 145 AD no further consulship ?!) move on the enlightenment here quite a bit. Some other inscriptions are a bit more “meager” here, like the building inscription at the Trienz castellum or WP 10/22 and, even more “minimalistic” ( a good training for “ scrabble” ?! ;-) ) ) like the one on the (stone) tower of WP ( Wachpunkt ) 10/29 – which doesn’t help here either. Newer finds, especially at WP 10/33 (on the border between Baden-Württemberg and Bavaria) , which seems to be the “youngest” inscription along the towers of the OL, state the consulship more exactly thus enabling to date it to 146 AD. Together with another new inscription at WP 10/19 mentioning tribunship in 145 AD, a reliable dating into the time between 145 and 146 AD seems now possible.
Recurring to the experiences in dating military diplomas, where we have sometimes a measurable delay between
writeup and issue on can now assume, the imperial order was given in 145 AD and the works have been completed
in 146 AD. ( Taking into account various states of build and finish from “project” to “project” as may be reflected from an inscription at the cohort (?) castellum of Benningen.
Quite enlightening here is the grammar used in these inscriptions rangeing from predominant use of Ablativum or Dativum along the Odenwald-Line, promoting thoughts of a more indirect way of issueing orders for building, as opposed to the predominant use of Nominativum in the castella of the Neckar-Line, which allows for the assumption (conclusion ?) that the imperial dynasty may have ordered build here directly.
Furthermore the inscriptions clearly show the swap of (the larger) units between north and south probably depicting (in conjunction with the different ranks of the persons commanding them) changes of the organization – line of command etc.- or “rebuilding” of the tactical groupings.
Watching these events on a greater scale some things seem obvious (I’m not sure whether I got this right):
1. 145 AD is what they call a “dynastic year”. After adoption of Antoninus Pius through Hadrian in 138 AD,
The adoption of Marc Aurel through Antoninus Pius in 140 AD, Marc Aurel becomes designated successor to
Him and marries his daughter Faustina the younger.
2. Antoninus Pius lead a “bellum maurorum”in norther Africa, where he employed , besides cavalry from the Danube and troops from Spain, parts of the LegXXII pf from Mogontiacum, thus weakening this sector.
(Was this building programme undertaken as a compensation for the weakening, as it is also proposed for a similar situation in Britain/Scotland later on [Antonine Wall – 154-158 AD;what a similarity to the moving of
the line from the OL to the ORL])

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>EDIT: As sortof background-Information --- Website on roman inscriptional abbreviations : [url:g43eiwa5]http://www.case.edu/artsci/clsc/asgle/abbrev/latin/[/url]<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Had I thought that this was a (sort-of ) :wink: “thrilling lecture” Dr, Stephan Benders lecture (“Wo endet der Odenwaldlimes am Neckar”)on the presumed “end” of the OL at the Neckar. This issue had been the most interesting since the times of the RLK (Reichs-Limes-Kommision) by the end of the 19th century.
He began with showing pictures taken from the Scheuerberg looking south and north, the latter one clearly showing part of the course of the OL as far as beyond Bad Wimpfen and Bad Friedrichshall (both -Kochendorf and –Jagstfeld) up to the area of Bachenau (240 m) . This mountain lies ONO from Neckarsulm ( 162 m elevation) and is 310 m high.
This view displays fertile ground at the foot of this mountain, with the same impression when looking south, where you can see well beyond Heilbronn (170 m) down to Lauffen (175 m) even though there are elevated landmarks like the Wartberg (NNO of Heilbronn) and the “Fleiner Höhe” (SSO of Heilbronn) in between. Further prominent landmarks southward are the Hungerberg (315m /~SSW) and the Ottmarsheimer Höhe (Besigheim-Ottmarsheim; 320 m/ nearly southward).
(They may have served as points of orientation/surveillance for the course of limes northward – and they are RIGHT of the Neckar).
As a case study Dr. Bender looked at the development of “insight” on the course of the limes from WP 10/76 (the last tower known by the original research by the RLK) southward through the times.
At first it was assumed (by the RLK) that the roman finds at the Duttenberg side of the bank of the Jagst meant a castellum was there, with a tower somewhere beneath the buildings of Duttenberg himself, and that the Limes either ended here or ran straight to the center of Jagstfeld, where another castellum opposite of the existing cohort castellum of Bad Wimpfen im Tal (the part in the Neckar valley, not the medieval part uphill), was suspected.
(As far as I recall there were in fact roman finds there- nowadays one would assume the site of a villa rustica or similar – I’ve “lost contact” to the passage where I read that.)
But in 1962 the process of building a new quarter for Kochendorf (“PLattenwald”, SW of Bad Friedrichshall-Kochendorf, right next to Neckarsulm-Amorbach ) they managed to find the remains of a watchtower and to excavate that 5,5 x 5,5 m building with private help.
In the course of building another watchtower in this area was found and excavated under similar circumstances in 1964. Both points were well outside the course of the Limes presumed at that time, so they were mostly ignored or forgotten to mention in literature “on the subject”.
The next leap forward in enlightenment came in 1990, when the great german aerial archeologist Otto Brasch could identify and photograph a small (numerus) castellum near the Kochendorf cemetery. That spot also was clearly outside the presumed run of the Limes. The castellum had the exact size of its “sister”-castellum at Trienz and sported a cemetery and a small vicus , too. So they had to “rethink” the course of the Limes again.
When Archeologist Dr. Jörg Biel was undertaking surveillance (1998 ?) in this area for finds from the "Michelsberger Kultur" on a grand scale, he “ran into” a trace of palisades that went through his area, being about 325 m long.
(Now the two older spots with the watchtowers popped up into attention again.)
Now an end of the line opposite the cohort castellum of Heilbronn-Böckingen seemed possible.
Further surveillances of these areas on a bigger scale followed suit.
1. At the place of the “tower from 1962” (tower A)
2. In the near vicinity of the Kochendorf castellum
3. In some areas between these two places
These confirmed the previous findings and promoted new ones: a previous wooden tower on both sites, the one predating the castellum has precedents from the castellum Haselhecke (Walldürn) on the ORL (not sure if I got that right ?!) where at this site a precurring (wooden) watchtower was spotted.
Now if we get the new finds into perspective two things are obvious:
1. The Kochendorf castellum seems to be oriented parallel to the course of the limes (trench of the palisades – that is, here)
2. Commencing this line southwards we get into line with the Ottmarsheimer Höhe NW of Mundelsheim.
Right in this area we have finds of cellars, a mithreum, a number of wells, a villa rustica and structures like a big villa in general.
Dendrochronological findings date this place earlier than the findings at the ORL and the settlements that came after the limes “went forward”. From a well were wooden planks indicating cutting/felling from around/right after 136 AD, with one well “falling out of order” as the planks used could be dated before 142 AD with one plank dating even as far back as 120 AD, quite close to the findings a Marköbel. Taking into account that this place had “south gallic” terra sigillata (pottery), which is customarily dated to the time before 150 AD, and was characteristic for the pottery found along the course of the OL, one could easily think of a military place there.
( These places lie just opposite of the 2-castellum-station at Walheim, where we have one cohort and one numerous castellum,-- the latter one was not held as long as the cohort castellum, since ,in short, parts of the vicus were erected over it. Going further south we have the findplaces of Murr near the mouth of the river Murr (into the Neckar] with a structure that is thought to be a shiplanding with some infrastructure around it and near Marbach, not too far away, both places showing the same pottery as Ottmarsheim/Besigheim. Does this indicate an early foundation of the “vicus murrensium” and/or military places ? Oh yes, these places lie right opposite to the cohort castellum of Benningen.)
The findings at Ottmarsheim and Walheim raised thoughts of Dr. Klaus Körtum (2002) that Walheim being a two-castellum place may have been the end of one or two futher part(s) of the OL/Neckarlimes, centered around Heilbronn-Böckingen, with two possible lines of its course.
Dr. Bender furthermore mentioned an essay of Dr. Sommer from 2000, where he, in the course of his part in the Limes Congress issued his thoughts that it might have run to opposite of Benningen, the place of which is in a sling/bend of river Neckar, which has nearly the eastmost excursion of all bends hitherto.
This also would put the lower Murr valley as well as the lower Bottwar Valley, both very fertile areas in close “sight” of roman military presence.
Now where would be the end of this line of the Limes ?
Taking into account what Hadrian did at the end of Hadrian Wall, (Monument at Wallsend) it’s obvious that such a monumental, representative feat has not been found on the german lines of the Limes yet.
(Faintly remembering the “Römer in Baden-Würrtemberg” – 1st Edition, --in the general part before the single finding-places- which stated that at the [cavalry !] castellum of Stuttgart-Bad Cannstatt, lying on the right bank of the Neckar, may have been the beginning of a limes road running on that side [ till Walheim ?? ]. This might have enabled better control of the mouth of the Rems [into the Neckar] and further river-bends [south of Benningen] extending toward east. The leading idea about Bad Cannstatt was at that time, that it was mainly guarding a ford/passage and a road junction/crossroad where the roads north-south on the left bank of the Neckar met with the roads through the Black Forrest towards the Danube.)
As a closer, Dr. Bender took towards the images of limites as portrayed by both Trajan Column and the Column of Marcus Aurelius. The Trajan column, (clearly ?) depicting the frontier at the Danube, was viewing/showing it like from the outside (of the Imperium) , whereas the Marc’s Column did it just the other way round, viewed from inside
the Imperium Romanum (order of show: river, watchtower,palisades) which stands for a different attitude.

To be taken carefully, I’m not sure whether I got everything right.
As always with longer sermons of mine: pardon my (poor) English ----- and those who find (orthographical) mistakes may keep them. 8)
Otherwise: corrections welcome.

------ End of Part 3 ------
EDITED: April, 9th, 2010 : LINK added
EDITED: April, 17th, 2010: Further info (Doctorate paper from 1993) on the finds from the Benningen area (both banks of river Neckar!)
[url:g43eiwa5]http://www.freidok.uni-freiburg.de/volltexte/2837/[/url] In German but with "lotsaspics" in the appendices. (570 pp in all !)

[D B Campbell]

Heartfelt thanks for your exhaustive report, Siggi!

This was mainly achieved by recent reviewing of the copious inscriptions along the OL.

I always meant to assemble a corpus of these. What a pity there isn't a "Roman Inscriptions of Germany", like our RIB.

Together with another new inscription at WP 10/19 mentioning tribunship in 145 AD, a reliable dating into the time between 145 and 146 AD seems now possible. ..., the imperial order was given in 145 AD and the works have been completed in 146 AD.

Seems eminently sensible.

These confirmed the previous findings and promoted new ones: a previous wooden tower on both sites, the one predating the castellum has precedents from the castellum Haselhecke (Walldürn) on the ORL (not sure if I got that right ?!) where at this site a precurring (wooden) watchtower was spotted.

You probably remembered correctly, Siggi. The fortlet at Haselhecke sits on the site of Wp. 4/85 (Holzturm). (Not sure about Walldürn, though.)

The findings at Ottmarsheim and Walheim raised thoughts of Dr. Klaus Körtum (2002) that Walheim being a two-castellum place may have been the end of one or two futher part(s) of the OL/Neckarlimes, centered around Heilbronn-Böckingen, with two possible lines of its course.

Ingenious!

As always with longer sermons of mine: pardon my (poor) English

You have absolutely nothing to apologise for, Siggi.

[Simplex]

Hi DB and all others interested in this thread,

I always meant to assemble a corpus of these. What a pity there isn't a "Roman Inscriptions of Germany", like our RIB.

I faintly remember something like CIL
Pirating on wikipedia a bit 8) , i ran into this:
[url:22jq0b7d]http://cil.bbaw.de/[/url]
and
[url:22jq0b7d]http://www.epigraphische-datenbank-heidelberg.de/[/url]
Haven't tried myself yet, but they lok interesting "prima facie".
Greez
and a happy easter y'all
Simplex

[D B Campbell]

i ran into this: [url:3230s15m]http://cil.bbaw.de/[/url]

Yup -- this is the official web site of CIL, the Corpus Inscriptionum Latinarum, which is a giant compendium of inscriptions in Latin. The key here is: in Latin! The beauty of RIB (e.g. RIB volume III) is that the inscriptions are translated into a modern language as well as in Latin. Also (imho) a volume like RIB is rather more accessible than the CIL volumes, which you probably won't find outside a university library. What do other people think?

and [url:3230s15m]http://www.epigraphische-datenbank-heidelberg.de/[/url]

This is the admirable project of Heidelberg Academy of Sciences to digitise CIL (and other corpora of Latin inscriptions), checking and revising en route. As far as I know, the project has run out of steam, to a certain extent. Pity.

[Simplex]

Hi,
....some more information on the background of ORL and World Heritage and the plans to support it --- the "Limesentwicklungsplan":
[url:33jcgxpj]http://www.denkmalpflege-hessen.de/Download/limes.pdf[/url]
[url:33jcgxpj]http://www.liz-bw.de/fileadmin/user_upload/pdf/Limesentwicklungsplan_klein.pdf[/url]
[url:33jcgxpj]http://www.liz-bw.de/fileadmin/user_upload/pdf/Limesentwicklungsplan_gross.pdf[/url]
In German, but with pics (actually lots'a pics), the latter two parts are the same paper with "klein" meaning (in effect) 4MB (164 pg) and "groß" 22 MB. (160 pg -- ??)
BTW, the first part is 254MB . (650 pg) 8)
........haven't found the bavarian part, yet :oops:
So far , so good.

Greez

Simplex

[Simplex]

...so, going on a little bit further (although I'm still under kinda shock as I seemed to have mixed up the two last lectures [Planck/Schallmayer :oops: ], but we're not THAT far still :mrgreen: )
Next on the list was Dr. Britta Rabold, deputy chief-in-charge of the monuments preservation authorities at Karlsruhe (the chief of excavations in/around my area, that means). She was lecturing about new findings "from the middle part of the OL" , the vicus by the castellum Schlossau.("Neue Erkenntnisse zum mittleren Odenwaldlimes-- Der Kastellvicus in Schlossau").
The size of the vicus inevitably raised the question whether Schlossau was the center of gravity of the OL, the fact that the fort there was relatively small.
The vicus is sited south of the fort, which was already excavated by the RLK more than a century back. (Surveillance through the past years there had shown the fort to have less gates than stated by the RLK, -- surely no western gate, more close surveillance will show whether it actually had 3 gates or even less.)
As numerous stamped tiles show, the fort was built by a Vexillation by the LEG XXII pf from Mogontiacum, a dedication from the bath manes one Titus Maius Magnus in command.
The ongoing surveillances for 2010 are planned to give a better roundup/overview on the parts (of the vicus AND the fort, that means) which have not been scutinized/excavated yet.
It seems that the course of the limes is also not totally clear in that area, one or more kinks of this course seem to be possible, which should be cleared by the geomagnetic (and other) prospection of the OL that is already under ways and new assessment of the facts already known.
A further extension of the vicus towards north and east is to be expected, judging from the parts of a larger building channel heating(? =“Kanalheizung”) already excavated. A number of tile furnaces (?= “Ziegelöfen”) have also been found, too big for such a small (numerous) castellum.
This is also augmented by the finds west of the main road, where traces of buildings give a clue that they are rather belonging to bigger structures than the usual “stripe” houses (“Streifenhäuser”) to be expected near a military post at that time. This also shows in cellars deeper than usual and a flight of rooms connected by a wall of about 40m length. Since its presently impossible to explorate directly southward further recognition on this building will only come indirectly by further evaluation/new assessment of the older finds.
In general the excavations have show 3 different phases to exist in the vicus.
To further “round-up the picture”, the exploration of the graveyard (further) south of the vicus will be undertaken (in 2010).
In classifying the type of bath with his characteristic way of heating Dr. Dietwulf Baatz ( Dr. Schallmayer’s predecessor) could give a valuable hint by pointing out to similarities to the bath of the mansio by the Saalburg castellum(D) and the big bath of Biriciana (Weissenburg in Bayern, D).
(There will be further research on this.)
As to the watersupply – only one well has been found yet, so there are hopes for more in future surveillances.
As opposed to this a lot of fireplaces have been found, some (double-chambered) probably used for drying crop and later on for different purposes, some used for manufacturing pottery (4), belonging to the latest phase, containing footprints (Size 41) and 20 pieces of deficient pottery.
Also found were sling-stones and fragments of millstones used for fastening larger posts.
Strong Erosion in some parts of the area did seriously hamper exploration there.
The extension of the vicus as it has been excavated until now poses serious questions concerning the course of the limes (road and palisade) in this area, it might well have run under the main road or far more to the west.
The use of LIDAR (Laserscanning) of the area as planned should give more clues here. (As already stated.)
The following lecture of Renate Schiwall, M.A. (“Historische Konservierungsstrategien am Odenwaldlimes”) dealt with the historical efforts to preserve finds and findingplaces as compared with the way it was handled today.
-----End of Part III ----

As before: Take it with care .... I'm gettin' old . :wink:
Next part will be about the reconstruction of wooden watchtowers.

EDIT: to cite Dr. Rabold (from Dieter Planck, "Die Römer in Baden-Württemberg, 3er Ed. [? , they are not specific about this, here- 2005 was not a good year for publications from the Theiss.Verlag !!!], Stuttgart 2005]
"....... where the inhabitants of the castellum village at Schlossau were living during "Phase 3" , ...., is not clear yet, --maybe not "on location". There are several indications, however, that at Schlossau even after moving the Limes, even on a smaler scale, settling may have prevailed in the 2nd half of the 2nd centura AD. It also cannot be ruled out completely (yet), that the military from Schlossau was not moved along forward by mid 2nd century, but rather at a later time."
Not many news since 2005, as we may see here.

[D B Campbell]

Wow -- there's more!

..., the fact that the fort there was relatively small.

Just to clarify, Kastell Schloßau is a Numerus-Kastell -- what we call a "small fort" in Britain -- of the sort that characterises the Odenwald limes. The classic exemplar is Hesselbach. (See Roman Auxiliary Forts: p.30, plan; p. 26, reconstruction painting.)

Surveillance through the past years there had shown the fort to have less gates than stated by the RLK, -- surely no western gate, more close surveillance will show whether it actually had 3 gates or even less.

That's interesting, Siggi. My old copy of Schallmeyer's Der Odenwald Limes (1984) -- surely out-of-date by now -- shows the fort with three gates, like Hesselbach. Did anyone mention the Roman road that supposedly enters by the north gate and exists by the east gate, cutting diagonally across the interior?!

In classifying the type of bath with his characteristic way of heating Dr. Dietwulf Baatz ( Dr. Schallmayer’s predecessor) could give a valuable hint by pointing out to similarities to the bath of the mansio by the Saalburg castellum(D) and the big bath of Biriciana (Weissenburg in Bayern, D). (There will be further research on this.)

Excellent. Was Dietwulf at the conference? (He is now 82 years old.)

Again, just to clarify, the bathhouse follows the standard "row-type" (Reihentyp) configuration familiar from Würzberg (another Numerus-Kastell, "small fort", on the Odenwald). (For the same basic type, see Roman Auxiliary Forts: p.51, Bearsden bathhouse; p. 53, Walldürn; p. 54, reconstruction painting of Bothwellhaugh.)

The extension of the vicus as it has been excavated until now poses serious questions concerning the course of the limes (road and palisade) in this area, it might well have run under the main road or far more to the west.

This would take it underneath the fort. Is it suggested that the fort sits on the line of the limes? Or did they mean that the limes perhaps lies further east, away from the fort and bathhouse?

All in all, good job, Siggi! Thanks for reporting so fully.

[Simplex]

Hi y'all seems my writeups need some clarifications,
...here's to underline what DB said:

Just to clarify, Kastell Schloßau is a Numerus-Kastell -- what we call a "small fort" in Britain -- of the sort that characterises the Odenwald limes. The classic exemplar is Hesselbach. (See Roman Auxiliary Forts: p.30, plan; p. 26, reconstruction painting.)

Schlossau
[url:1a5holog]http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:ORL_51_tab_02_pic_01_Grundriss.jpg&filetimestamp=20061220205250[/url]
[url:1a5holog]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/b/ba/ORL_51_tab_01_pic_01_Lageplan.jpg[/url]
[url:1a5holog]http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:ORL_51_tab_01_pic_02_Therme.jpg&filetimestamp=20061220205400[/url]
Schlossau Grabungsstand 2005
[url:1a5holog]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a2/Schlo%C3%9Fau_Ausgrabung_2005_4113.jpg[/url]
Würzberg
[url:1a5holog]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/e/e0/ORL_49_tab_01_pic_02_Lageplan.jpg[/url]
[url:1a5holog]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/0/0c/ORL_49_tab_01_pic_01_Grundriss.jpg[/url]
[url:1a5holog]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/a/a9/ORL_49_tab_02_pic_01_Therme.jpg[/url]
Here (= Wikipedia (D)) the Author is already citing the „new view“ on Schlossau as printed in the latest Schallmayer book.
Saalburg
[url:1a5holog]http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:Saalburg_castellum_plan.jpg&filetimestamp=20091019105914[/url]
Weissenburg
[url:1a5holog]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/Cyark_Weissenburg_plan.jpg[/url]
Hesselbach
[url:1a5holog]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/a/a5/ORL_50_tab_01_pic_01_Grundriss_1.jpg[/url]

That's interesting, Siggi. My old copy of Schallmeyer's Der Odenwald Limes (1984) -- surely out-of-date by now -- shows the fort with three gates, like Hesselbach. Did anyone mention the Roman road that supposedly enters by the north gate and exists by the east gate, cutting diagonally across the interior?!

Thats is what has been suspected.The imminent LIDAR scanning is supposed to help here.
http://That's interesting, Siggi. My old...interior?!
The view toward the projected pictures was not very good plus I can't recall that the course of the road was explicitely mentioned, but the other description made it quite clear that the exact course of both Limes and Road are not totally clear.
If you follow the link (2nd) the pictures show the (presumed ??) limes courses from north and south with a gap right in front of the fort. The don't match perfectly well.

Excellent. Was Dietwulf at the conference? (He is now 82 years old.)

Yes, Dr. Baatz was also there. (Actually it was a "Who is Who" of southern germany's limes scholars. Naturally Bavaria was not there in the same strenght as both the Hassian and Baden-Würtembergian scholars, but they sent there best ones. :wink: )

Again, just to clarify, the bathhouse follows the standard "row-type" (Reihentyp) configuration familiar from Würzberg (another Numerus-Kastell, "small fort", on the Odenwald). (For the same basic type, see Roman Auxiliary Forts: p.51, Bearsden bathhouse; p. 53, Walldürn; p. 54, reconstruction painting of Bothwellhaugh.)

As the view was not too good a got the impression that the Schlossau-bath was not only rare by type but also by comparative size. (Which seems not to be the case)

This would take it underneath the fort. Is it suggested that the fort sits on the line of the limes? Or did they mean that the limes perhaps lies further east, away from the fort and bathhouse?

Yes that was one of the essences of this lecture.
Looking back at the colloquium I have come to the conclusion that this lecture was not as "progressively up to date" as most of the other lectures.
As always my advice for the non-german-speaking majority of this forum is as always: Pictures do speak louder than words --- so go on and visite the links.

Greez
(..... and yours "alzheimerly" :wink: )
Simplex