Parazonium

[Theodosius the Great]

One problem with the Roman version is that it seems to have had several forms, some like daggers and some like swords.

If that's the case --"Parazonium" being a loosely used term-- I think I'll just keep my eagle-pommel gladius. The evidence in all its inconsistency seems to point to that conclusion. Thanks, Matthew

I got the impression that Theodosions was pursuing the dagger so I directed him to that.

Well, I didn't know I had an option. I was trying to find out what the heck it looked like, but there's no one answer in a Roman context it seems.

Thank you, again, hoplite14gr. I still enjoyed learning the history of the parazonium's usage in the Hellenistic tradition.

[tlclark]

Just echoing Matthew's statements here.

In art history literature this type of parallel bladed sword, particularly with the wide or elaborate hilt is usually called a parazonium.

Whether that was what the ancients called it I honestly don't know.

A great many of these terms are mined from literary sources and applied to objects in art by art historians since the Renaissance.

For example, there is a reference in Vitruvius that all temples to Fortuna are round. Art Historians since the Renaissance then applied the name of Fortuna to all round temples, an egregrious illogical reversal of Virtruvius' statement even if one accepts it at face value.

Whether we should be using this term to describe the officer's sword is debatable, but it is the term, and although it may be arbitrary this is the accepted term.

It's like terms "Gothic" What exactly does architecture of the 12th-15th C. have to do with 4-6th C. germanic peoples? Nothing, but the term is here to stay.

Rather than debating the terms, let's debate the object.

What is the officer's sword in Roman sculpture? Why is it usually held in the left arm instead of on a baldric? It is clearly associated with late hellenistic examples. What is it's lineage?

[hoplite14gr]

I understand your point Travis.
Here though I belive the discussion started as what the parazonium was.
I gave references of terms and explanations.
Possibly yes, it came as a term to describe even swords-wrong in my opinion.
I feel that medieval and renesance scholars trying to impresse their audiences are responsible for using the term incorrectly.

The classic texts speak of Enheridio for dagger but the term Machera is also -so widly used-that you can never be sure if it is sword or dagger that they are talking about.

Parazonio= PARA TIN ZONI by the belt (Tucked in the belt???). Usually Cretans and islanders in Greece stuffed dagger scabards through the wide sash-like belts. Paintings of Heroes of the 1821 revolution show even short swords tucked in the belt.

Still I belive the terms are more correctly applied to daggers.
Kind regards

[Theodosius the Great]

Hello, hoplite14gr....

I understand your point Travis.
Here though I belive the discussion started as what the parazonium was.
I gave references of terms and explanations.

Yes, I framed the openning question the way I did because I didn't know the term was an artistic one. Your explanations were, nonetheless, very enlightenting as usual.

Like Travis, I don't know if the word was ever used by the ancients in the context of describing the gear of a Greek or Roman general.

Hi Travis,

Rather than debating the terms, let's debate the object.

Since we don't know if the ancient sources even mention this weapon, I agree it would be good to branch out the discussion in that direction : what do we know about the so-called Parazonium ?

Does anyone know of a ceremonial sword that's mentioned in the ancient sources that a general would carry around during Hellenistic or Roman times ?

[hoplite14gr]

Thanks Jaime (Hope I wrote it right!)
I do not belive the ancients regarded weapons as ceremonial, the way we do.
A very ancient almost rusting weapon in a temple attributed to a hero possibly was ceremonial.
All other weapons were to be used. The only refernces we have to ceremonial shields is one of Alkibiades and one found in Phlip II grave made from ivory.
Dagger were main weapos for the poorer classes and backup weapon for the more wealthy.
Kind regards

[Dan Diffendale]

Does anyone know of a ceremonial sword that's mentioned in the ancient sources that a general would carry around during Hellenistic or Roman times ?

As I posted in your earlier Parazonium thread, there's an epigram by Martial:

Book 14, the Apophoreta ("party favors," more or less), published ca. 84 CE:

XXXII Parazonium.

Militiae decus hoc gratique erit omen honoris,
Arma tribunicium cingere digna latus.

32. Parazonium
"This is an honor (or beauty, or source of glory) in war and it will be an omen of pleasant esteem (or office),
a weapon worthy of wreathing a tribunician torso"
(a defensive arm worthy of encircling/surrounding the side/body/person of a tribune)

(my translation trying to leave all possibilities open...)

[Theodosius the Great]

Thanks Jaime (Hope I wrote it right!)

You did :wink:

I do not belive the ancients regarded weapons as ceremonial, the way we do.

In the sense that ancient ceremonial weapons could be functional as opposed to modern ones which are not made to endure in actual combat (i.e. they would break if you tried it) ?

The only refernces we have to ceremonial shields is one of Alkibiades and one found in Phlip II grave made from ivory.

Wow, I never heard of that shield. I know they found greaves, a cuirass and a helmet.

Dagger were main weapos for the poorer classes and backup weapon for the more wealthy.

That makes sense.

As I posted in your earlier Parazonium thread, there's an epigram by Martial:

Book 14, the Apophoreta ("party favors," more or less), published ca. 84 CE:

Oh, right :oops: I apologise. I started that thread 2 years ago and it slipped my mind.

Thank you, Dan, that's really helpful. Interesting how the weapon is nameless and its description is vague, but it seems to be the same one we see in the monuments, nonetheless.

And you even addressed the word's origin :

just to clear up questions of Greekness...
True, 'parazonium' as it stands is a Latin word, but it's a borrowing from Greek. παραζώνίον (parazw/nion - parazonion) does show up once in a papyrus (which looks interesting -- I'll get back to you with specifics), but it's ultimately derived from the verb παραζώννυμι (parazw/nnumi - parazonnumi) which means "to gird to the side, hang to the girdle". So a parazonium would be "something girded to the side, something hung on the girdle" - a sword or dagger.

And Perry Gray mentioned the modern naming of this Greek/Roman weapon :

Feugere describes this as a light weapon akin to the pugio and credits P Couissin with naming it.

Thanks again for bringing the thread back to my attention, Dan.

[AntonivsMarivsCongianocvs]

Ave & Hallo,

I just finished making a Parazonium, I posted the thread here:
http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic.php?t=18036

Since there's been a lot of talk about the Hellenistic weapon both here and over at the Roman forum, I figured I'd mention it here too as well.

I would image if you're going to comment please post in the link above so it's all in one place.

I added a few photos below, there are lots more in the other thread.

I based mine on both the examples in statues as well as the Hellenistic xiphos sword... which is the closest sword from antiquity with physical examples I had.

Thanks!
Anthony