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Late Roman Army (Fifth century)
#31
Hoffmann, Dietrich (1969): Das Spätrömische Bewegungsheer und die Notitia Dignitatum, 2 vols., Epigraphische Studien 1, (Rheinisches Landesmuseum Bonn).
Nicasie, Martijn (1997): Twilight of Empire, the Roman Army from the Reign of Diocletian until the Battle of Adrianople, (Thesis Publishers Amsterdam).
Southern, Pat and Karen Dixon (1996): The Late Roman Army, (Routledge).
Woods, David (1996): The Scholae Palatinae and the Notitia Dignitatum, in: Journal of Roman Military Equipment Studies 7, pp. 37-50.
Robert Vermaat
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FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
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#32
I have some questions, how many vandals passed to Africa in the fifth century? How many soldiers had the comes Bonifacius? (Maybe 30.000 between limitaeni and comitatenses?)
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Valerius/Jorge
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#33
Quote:I have some questions, how many vandals passed to Africa in the fifth century?
Victor Vitensis (Book I.2) names 80.000 Vandals, including women and children, as well as their Alan allies.

Quote:How many soldiers had the comes Bonifacius? (Maybe 30.000 between limitaeni and comitatenses?)
No figures given. Boniface fiest held comand in Africa, he commanded possibly the troops mentioned in the Notitia Dignitatum, but since he had a Gothic wife these may have included Gothic soldiers. But no numbers known.
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
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#34
Quote:
L.Valerius Gaudentius:2i27bkn5 Wrote:I have some questions, how many vandals passed to Africa in the fifth century?
Victor Vitensis (Book I.2) names 80.000 Vandals, including women and children, as well as their Alan allies.

Quote:How many soldiers had the comes Bonifacius? (Maybe 30.000 between limitaeni and comitatenses?)
No figures given. Boniface fiest held comand in Africa, he commanded possibly the troops mentioned in the Notitia Dignitatum, but since he had a Gothic wife these may have included Gothic soldiers. But no numbers known.

Then, the vandals may have carried 10.000-15.000 warriors (more or less), no?
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#35
Quote:
Vortigern Studies:g0moqx2m Wrote:...
Victor Vitensis (Book I.2) names 80.000 Vandals, including women and children, as well as their Alan allies.

Then, the vandals may have carried 10.000-15.000 warriors (more or less), no?

After some studies and calculations done in another thread, I've learned that warrior societies could sistematically sustain about 20% of their population as warriors.

Depending on the number of casualties before crossing from Betica to Mauretania, the Hasdingi Vandals and their (small number of) allied Alans could amount up to 16,000 without starting to look an anomaly. Also, I haven't found info on the nature of the Alans who survived to the huge carnage of Silingi Vandals and Alans in the 420s by Vesi Goths and Romans, thus the percentage of warriors could be higher or lower, depending if there were more or less Alan civilians...

Anyway 15,000 seems a reasonable enough number, considering they were able to completely control both Mauretaniae, siege Hippona, and later on move towards Carthage itself.

Hope this helps
Episkopos P. Lilius Frugius Simius Excalibor, :. V. S. C., Pontifex Maximus, Max Disc Eccl
David S. de Lis - my blog: <a class="postlink" href="http://praeter.blogspot.com/">http://praeter.blogspot.com/
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#36
Quote:
L.Valerius Gaudentius:320lr2wf Wrote:
Vortigern Studies:320lr2wf Wrote:...
Victor Vitensis (Book I.2) names 80.000 Vandals, including women and children, as well as their Alan allies.

Then, the vandals may have carried 10.000-15.000 warriors (more or less), no?

After some studies and calculations done in another thread, I've learned that warrior societies could sistematically sustain about 20% of their population as warriors.

Depending on the number of casualties before crossing from Betica to Mauretania, the Hasdingi Vandals and their (small number of) allied Alans could amount up to 16,000 without starting to look an anomaly. Also, I haven't found info on the nature of the Alans who survived to the huge carnage of Silingi Vandals and Alans in the 420s by Vesi Goths and Romans, thus the percentage of warriors could be higher or lower, depending if there were more or less Alan civilians...

Anyway 15,000 seems a reasonable enough number, considering they were able to completely control both Mauretaniae, siege Hippona, and later on move towards Carthage itself.

Hope this helps

For this reason, I have opened this thread. I find pretty difficult to conquest Africa, if it was well defended.
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#37
From the Notitia Dignitatum, West Empire, section VII:
(source http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/notitia1.html )

VII. Qui numeri ex praedictis per infrascriptas provincias habeantur:

Intra Africam cum uiro spectabili comite Africae:
Celtae iuniores.
Armigeri propugnatores seniores.
Armigeri propugnatores iuniores.
Secundani Italiciani.
Cimbriani.
Primani.[same as Prima Flavia Pacis.]
Secundani.[same as Secunda Flavia Virtutis]
Tertiani.[same as Tertia Flavia Salutis.]
Constantiniani.[same as Secunda Flavia Constantiniana.]
Constantiaci.[same as Flavia victrix Constantina.]
Tertio Augustani.
Fortenses.

Item Vexillationes:
Intra Africam cum uiro spectabili comite Africae:
Equites stablesiani Italiciani.
Equites scutarii seniores.[same as Equites scutarii.]
Equites stablesiani seniores.[same as Equites stablesiani Africani.]
Equites Marcomanni.
Equites armigeri seiores.
Equites clibanarii.[same as Equites sagittarii clibanarii.]
Equites sagittarii Parthi seniores.
Equites cetrati seniores.
Equites primo sagittarii.
Equites secundo sagittarii.
Equites tertio sagittarii.
Equites quarto sagittarii.
Equites Parthi sagittarii iuniores.[same as Equites sagittarii Parthi iuniores.]
Equites cetrati iuniores.
Equites promoti iuniores.
Equites sagittarii iuniores.
Equites Honoriani iuniores.
Equites scutarii iuniores scolae secundae.[same as Equites secundi scutarii iuniores.]
Equites armigeri iuniores.

That's 12 infantry and 19 cavalry units. Africa was the wheat source for Rome, and it's easy to see it could sustain a big number of horses. Besides, the main threat in there was the Bereber tribes that launched surprise attacks, and for that, cavalry was clearly better, while the infantry was capable of easily defending the cities, of which several were fairly big, Hippona, and Carthage herself.

If we take into account the armies deployed in both Mauretaniae we would get a little more, but not much more, as they aren't even mentioned in the ND. Tingitania had, however, under the rule of Hispania:

Intra Tingitaniam cum uiro spectabili comite:
Mauri tonantes seniores.
Mauri tonantes iuniores.
Constantiniani.[same as Constantiaci ,or the legiones
comitatenses Secunda Flavia Constantiniana also found in Africa.]
Septimani iuniores[also found in Italia or Gallia?]

And

Intra Tingitaniam cum uiro spectabili comite Tingitaniae:
Equites scutarii seniores.[also in Africa?]
Equites sagittarii seniores.
Equites Cordueni.[same as Equites sagittarii Cordueni.]

But these units probably fell under the Vandals when they crossed the Strait, so I don't think they would have been available for the defense of Africa. And of the limitanei, we only know there were 16 Praepositus limitis of the different places, but no mention to armies.

Therefore, approximately, we get:

12 x 500 comitatenses = 6,000

19 x 500 vexillationes = 9,500

These are the paper numbers, and I doubt they were full strength, they rarely were. So, I'd say a total of:

4,000 infantry and 7,000 cavalry, plus auxiliares.

I dunno if these numbers, however, are good enough. However, considering the Vandals were able to siege Hippona, with the help of Bereber auxiliares, and Carthago could not send an army to relieve the city, nor were they able to get out and present formal battle, I'd say those troops were spreaded out through the territory, and the comes was not able to get them all together and prepare an effective defense. The numbers, therefore, look pretty valid, overall.

best regards,
Episkopos P. Lilius Frugius Simius Excalibor, :. V. S. C., Pontifex Maximus, Max Disc Eccl
David S. de Lis - my blog: <a class="postlink" href="http://praeter.blogspot.com/">http://praeter.blogspot.com/
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