Tunic Color? No its not the same old debate!

[Primvs Pavlvs]

Since there seems to be serious debate over what colors were worn, and what colors were not worn. I was wondering if there was seriously a standard at all. What I am getting at with legions all over the empire, and clothing being obtained locally, and from home. Would there have really been any uniformity at all? Or is it just our modern concept of uniformity, and standardization?

[FAVENTIANVS]

Warning: You are entering a minefield! :!: :wink:

[Gordak]

LOL

Well they didnt wear Purple, right????


(Runs away in fear for his life)

Happy Saturnalia by the way.
-Gordak

[drsrob]

The subject has recently been tackled in these two topics:

• Tunic color on the question wether it was red or not.
  The history of 'uniforms' comparing early modern uniform with Roman uniformity or lack of it.

[tlclark]

Funny,

But I rarely here these great arguments regarding Late Antique and Byzantine tunics. There are two reasons I think.

1.) A greater wealth of representational evidence in mosaic, frescoes, icons, and elsewhere in media where color is preserved, unlike in earlier Roman periods where the media is relief sculpture, etc, and the color is not preserved.

2.) An enormous variety of tunic colors represented by all classes, military or otherwise in the representational media. We see blue, green, brown, red, yellow and grey tunics, in infinite shades and varieties with a preference for earth tones and pastels (which would be the most common earth and vegetable dyes) and less commonly jewel tones.

Inconsistency is the rule it seems. Status is conveyed by styles and manners of dress, not color. For example, I am thinking of the famous 5th-6th C. Icon of Mary with SS. Theodore and George at St. Catherine's. Both wear the military tunic and cloak with tablion, but the color of each's cloak, tunic and even the style of their segmentae and the tablion is different. It seems it is not the color that denotes rank but the tablion and form of dress itself.

The only exceptions are the colors red, dark blue, purple and gold, which always seem to have some associatin with imperial/ecclesiastical office or saintly or divine representations of the saints, the Virgin and Christ. Thinking of the endless number of military saints however, SS. George, Demetrios, Maurice, Makarios, Theodore Stratelates & Theodore Theron, I can remember seeing lots of variation, so even then, there is no clear uniform color.

So here is my thought, just to stir the pot a little. Since the "uniform" of the late empire is based on forms and styles of clothing, and not color, as seems to be the case, why the objection to the notion that the earlier periods were not, at the least, similar?

[Tarbicus]

Oh boy hock: I go away a few days and ....

Take your pick.

[John M McDermott]

How about a camoflauge scheme? How about one with the Frye's Electronics eagle on it?

[Tarbicus]

How about a camoflauge scheme?

Hmmm .... not sure about that .... milparade_camo.jpg

[Matthew Amt]

I suppose we can't just say, "There's no proof of uniformity" and call it quits, eh?

Matthew

[Comerus Gallus]

Tarbicus you are the best! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

add you a Karma!

[Caballo]

"Hmmm .... not sure about that .... milparade_camo.jpg"

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Presumably this is for the legions posted to Mesopotamia?

[Tarbicus]

Presumably this is for the legions posted to Mesopotamia?

Probably more for a boy band :oops:

[tlclark]

I suppose we can't just say, "There's no proof of uniformity" and call it quits, eh?

Matthew

I already tried in not as many words. oh well.

Travis

[FAVENTIANVS]

Tarbicus, what about desert storm camouflage?

[Graham Sumner]

By the way , while we are on the topic of (ahem) Tunic colour, does anyone know the original source of the following taken from Yann le Bohec 'The Imperial Roman Army', London. 1994. ?


'.....It was the custom of soldiers to wear their decorations, and that the right to dress in white for march pasts which Septimius Severus gave to centurions was later extended to all soldiers by Gallienus'.

le Bohec gives no source for this statement so if anybody does know where it originated from I would be very pleased to hear from them. I have looked in the SHA but it did not appear to be there, however younger and better eyes might have seen something I might have missed!

Graham.