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Tunic Color? No its not the same old debate! - Primvs Pavlvs - 12-24-2005
Since there seems to be serious debate over what colors were worn, and what colors were not worn. I was wondering if there was seriously a standard at all. What I am getting at with legions all over the empire, and clothing being obtained locally, and from home. Would there have really been any uniformity at all? Or is it just our modern concept of uniformity, and standardization?
Re: Tunic Color? No its not the same old debate! - FAVENTIANVS - 12-24-2005
Warning: You are entering a minefield! :!: :wink:
Re: Tunic Color? No its not the same old debate! - Gordak - 12-24-2005
LOL
Well they didnt wear Purple, right????
(Runs away in fear for his life)
Happy Saturnalia by the way.
-Gordak
other threads - drsrob - 12-26-2005
The subject has recently been tackled in these two topics:
- Tunic color on the question wether it was red or not.
The history of 'uniforms' comparing early modern uniform with Roman uniformity or lack of it.
Re: Tunic Color? No its not the same old debate! - tlclark - 12-27-2005
Funny,
But I rarely here these great arguments regarding Late Antique and Byzantine tunics. There are two reasons I think.
1.) A greater wealth of representational evidence in mosaic, frescoes, icons, and elsewhere in media where color is preserved, unlike in earlier Roman periods where the media is relief sculpture, etc, and the color is not preserved.
2.) An enormous variety of tunic colors represented by all classes, military or otherwise in the representational media. We see blue, green, brown, red, yellow and grey tunics, in infinite shades and varieties with a preference for earth tones and pastels (which would be the most common earth and vegetable dyes) and less commonly jewel tones.
Inconsistency is the rule it seems. Status is conveyed by styles and manners of dress, not color. For example, I am thinking of the famous 5th-6th C. Icon of Mary with SS. Theodore and George at St. Catherine's. Both wear the military tunic and cloak with tablion, but the color of each's cloak, tunic and even the style of their segmentae and the tablion is different. It seems it is not the color that denotes rank but the tablion and form of dress itself.
The only exceptions are the colors red, dark blue, purple and gold, which always seem to have some associatin with imperial/ecclesiastical office or saintly or divine representations of the saints, the Virgin and Christ. Thinking of the endless number of military saints however, SS. George, Demetrios, Maurice, Makarios, Theodore Stratelates & Theodore Theron, I can remember seeing lots of variation, so even then, there is no clear uniform color.
So here is my thought, just to stir the pot a little. Since the "uniform" of the late empire is based on forms and styles of clothing, and not color, as seems to be the case, why the objection to the notion that the earlier periods were not, at the least, similar?
Re: Tunic Color? No its not the same old debate! - Tarbicus - 12-27-2005
Oh boy
hock: I go away a few days and ....Take your pick.
Re: Tunic Color? No its not the same old debate! - John M McDermott - 12-27-2005
How about a camoflauge scheme? How about one with the Frye's Electronics eagle on it?
Re: Tunic Color? No its not the same old debate! - Tarbicus - 12-27-2005
Quote:How about a camoflauge scheme?
Hmmm .... not sure about that .... milparade_camo.jpg
Re: Tunic Color? No its not the same old debate! - Matthew Amt - 12-30-2005
I suppose we can't just say, "There's no proof of uniformity" and call it quits, eh?
Matthew
Re: Tunic Color? No its not the same old debate! - Comerus Gallus - 12-30-2005
Tarbicus you are the best! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
add you a Karma!
Re: Tunic Color? No its not the same old debate! - Caballo - 12-30-2005
"Hmmm .... not sure about that .... milparade_camo.jpg"
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Presumably this is for the legions posted to Mesopotamia?
Re: Tunic Color? No its not the same old debate! - Tarbicus - 12-30-2005
Quote:Presumably this is for the legions posted to Mesopotamia?Probably more for a boy band :oops:
Re: Tunic Color? No its not the same old debate! - tlclark - 12-30-2005
Quote:I suppose we can't just say, "There's no proof of uniformity" and call it quits, eh?
Matthew
I already tried in not as many words. oh well.
Travis
Re: Tunic Color? No its not the same old debate! - FAVENTIANVS - 12-30-2005
Tarbicus, what about desert storm camouflage?
tunic colours - Graham Sumner - 12-30-2005
By the way , while we are on the topic of (ahem) Tunic colour, does anyone know the original source of the following taken from Yann le Bohec 'The Imperial Roman Army', London. 1994. ?
'.....It was the custom of soldiers to wear their decorations, and that the right to dress in white for march pasts which Septimius Severus gave to centurions was later extended to all soldiers by Gallienus'.
le Bohec gives no source for this statement so if anybody does know where it originated from I would be very pleased to hear from them. I have looked in the SHA but it did not appear to be there, however younger and better eyes might have seen something I might have missed!
Graham.