ILLYRIANS

[Hoplitesmores]

This is often the case when cavalrymen carried shields, such as thureophoroi cavalrymen; the thureos was too long to be able to shift from one side to the other. However, I don't see why a cavalryman would not carry a shield at all simply because it only protected one side of the body- it still provided more protection than none at all.

I understand , even thought it wasn't very comfortable or even awkward one would still use it. :o

[Hoplitesmores]

Hey its got new stuff!

www.antiquemilitaryhistory.com/images/illyriatitle.jpg

www.antiquemilitaryhistory.com/images/illyrianew1.jpg

[MeinPanzer]

These Bithynians here.The shield seems huge, how did they use it on horseback exactly?

They held it at their side, protecting the left side of themselves and a portion of their horse, and used their lance or sword with the right hand.

Hey its got new stuff!

www.antiquemilitaryhistory.com/images/illyriatitle.jpg

www.antiquemilitaryhistory.com/images/illyrianew1.jpg

Ah, yeah, I forgot I already had that hosted on the site. That's the other battle plate I was referring to.

[Hoplitesmores]

any thoughts?

Illyrian wars map

[Bato]

any thoughts?

Illyrian wars map

Hi,

about this map, is few thinks wrong.

Demetrio of Faro is a illyrian commander under the Teutas orders. But he have bad relationship with another illyrian commander, Skerdiliad. Demetrio make a dell with the roman senate, he can rule in the island of Faros if do not fight against Rome.

In Corcyra he standing just for few time.

[Hoplitesmores]

After Agron died in 231 BC, Demetrius continued as ruler of Pharos under the regency of Queen Teuta.

The ruler of Pharos ,Demetrius was a Greek(Hellenistic Civilization - page 97 by Francois Chamoux,2003,"came under the command of a Greek from the Adriatic, Demetrius of Pharos").

After the first engagement of the First Illyrian War, Demetrius*, betrayed Teuta, gave up Corcyra to the Romans, and went over to the Roman side, acting as their guide and then as governor for most of Illyria under Roman rule.Teuta was restricted around Scodra and deprived of all her holdings.

In the Second illyrian war he rebelled against the Romans but failed.

www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?lookup=Plb.+2.11

*"Having accomplished all this, and having placed the greater part of Illyria under Demetrius, and invested him with a wide dominion, the Consuls retired to Epidamnus with their fleet and army."

[Hoplitesmores]

Demetrius and his illyrian friend Scerdilaidas went on a pirate spree together and raided cities.

They were allies for sometime but when in 217 BC Philip V of Macedon made war against the Illyrian Scerdilaidas for some areas Demetrius joined Phillip.

The relationship between Scerdilaidas and Demetrius went "bad" because of this.

[Bato]

came under the command of a Greek from the Adriatic, Demetrius of Pharos").

sorry but this is not enough, because this author call it with much easily Greek. If this author call it illyrian or roman you trusted in the same way?!

Demetrio in all the time led illyrian (warrior or not) even when his city's fall he was surrounded by illyrian. Or when he help king Antigon Doson with 1600 illyrian against Sparta.

whatever.

Demetrius and his illyrian friend Scerdilaidas went on a pirate spree together and raided cities.

Yes you right, but is just one city, Pylos. After this raid they split the flit (Demetrio 50 and Skerdiliad 40 ships). For some reason, Skerdiliad make alliance with etols and captured the city of Cynethe.

Demtrio after, with the 50 ships raid the Cyclade island and take from them money. In the same time with the alliance between Skerdiliad and etols, Demetrio make alliance with the enemy of etols Taurion the ruler of Corinth.

They were allies for sometime but when in 217 BC Philip V of Macedon made war against the Illyrian Scerdilaidas for some areas Demetrius joined Phillip.

Skerdiliad is an ally of Filip before Demetrio and this happened when the etols give nothing to Skerdiliad from the stuff captured. Filip know this and offer alliance to Skerdiliad. Filip will help him to rule in Illyria if Skerdiliad take part in the war against Ahe. And this happened around 219 B.C.E.

In the 216 relationship was broken because in company of Filip we find Demetrio. Filip know about the defeat of Rome from Hanibal, Demetrio after this news, push Filip to fight against Skerdiliad.

See Polyb Historiae,


[size=75:ecsfjlhb]Translated from Polybi Historiae ed. L. Dindorfio, vol. I-V in aedibus B. G. Teubneri, 1882-1924[/size]

[Hoplitesmores]

You should improve your English and your history skills.You can read Polybius extensively before quoting him.Demetrius was a Greek* and judging from your posting up to now you haven't read enough on the Illyrian wars.

-"The ruler of Pharos was a Greek, Demetrius",Lectures on Ancient History: From the Earliest Times to the Taking of ... - Page 353by Barthold GeorgNiebuhr
-Hellenistic Civilization - page 97 by Francois Chamoux,"came under the command of a Greek from the Adriatic, Demetrius of Pharos"
- A History of Rome to A.D. 565 - page 111by Arthur Edward Romilly Boak, William Gurnee Sinnigen,"The island of Pharos and some adjacent territory in Illyria were given to a Greek adventurer, Demetrius of Pharos"



Here is Polybius on the issue in general
[url:2u3suxzu]http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?lookup=Plb.+2.11[/url]

[Bato]

You should improve your English and your history skills.You can read Polybius extensively before quoting him.Demetrius was a Greek* and judging from your posting up to now you haven't read enough on the Illyrian wars or you have been reading Albanian nationalistic books.Your UCK friends in your links tell alot.

Haha like your orthodox priest translate. A greek lider of illyrian?!

even your location tell a lot.. Hellas, Macedonia hock:

incoming news

[Hoplitesmores]

This will help you

The Complete Idiot's Guide to the Roman Empire by Eric Dolaine Nelson- page 86-ISBN-10: 0028641515

"her kingdom and gave it to a Greek adventurer by the name of Demetrius of Pharos"



[url:fwh5ibpf]http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Idiots-Guide-Roman-Empire/dp/0028641515[/url]

[Bato]

by Eric Dolaine Nelson-

Yes from Eric yes.

:wink:

P.S every idiot can use google

[Caius Fabius]

While English is the language of the forum, not everyone can speak with the same skill. Also the rules for EVERYONE are the same, please no comments that are belittling or hurtful. No rude comments about someone's place of origin are allowed, either. Disagreements are allowed, however you must remain POLITE. If you have any questions, please check the rules for posting.

Thank you

[caiusbeerquitius]

All depictions and descriptions of them are like this

for the most part with some varieties and the Graviste is the only one have seen that is something different but its not supported by any other evidence.

I would love to see more stuff.

Ask Stefan, he can make more of those. Order here:
www.fabrica-augustana.de

or through me here on RAT.

[Robert Vermaat]

Now now people, let's calm down before we start yet another regional war, shall we? :wink:

Themistoklis, please lay off the nationalist accusations and stick to comments about schol;arly facts, will you? So far the discussion was hot but OK.

Kristi, I understand you're annoyed about the last remark, but would you please support your argument with a bit more facts before laughing at others?

Besides, I can't see your difficulty with Illyrians being led by Greeks. Among warbands and pirates, nationality or ethnic background, or even religion need not be important. Alan, german or Persian commanders led Roman armies in Late Antiquity, Greeks could and did lead armies without a Greek in them. When the sources say Demetrios was a Greek, I can't see why he should have been an Illyrian just because his men were Illyrians.