ILLYRIANS

[Robert Vermaat]

it is an issue of what a Celt is? your definition is just fine with me 'Celtic' style.

You would be (unpleasantly) surprised how we are still bothered by 19th-c. notions of nationalistic origin..
'Celtic'= French, ''Germanic' = German, 'Roman'= Italian, 'Illyrian' = Yougoslav. Well, in the minds of too many researchers, anyway.

[Hoplitesmores]

in the balkans albania,skopje,bulgaria live on these notions and nurture them.they are still in the 19th-c.The veil of communism and fascism has not being lifted...

[Aryaman2]

The celtic style is asociated with La Tene, not with Haalstat, that is representative of a more broadly spread "onternational" style shared by elites in Europe, so what you see here is that common international style I think.

[Caius Valens]

Thanks as some one whos father comes form the former Yugoslavia, I have always been intrested in thes people( Illyrians) though usally in a Roman context. A lot of info to go through Cheers Caius/Thomas

[ambrosius]

it is an issue of what a Celt is? your definition is just fine with me 'Celtic' style.

You would be (unpleasantly) surprised how we are still bothered by 19th-c. notions of nationalistic origin..
'Celtic'= French, ''Germanic' = German, 'Roman'= Italian, 'Illyrian' = Yougoslav. Well, in the minds of too many researchers, anyway.

:lol: Absolutely. Why modern researchers (who would fancy calling
themselves 'Celtic' - even if they lived in Australia) insist that 5th c.
Britons were nothing but Celtic. And that those nasty Romans (who had,
of course, victimised them for 400 years) were, of course, all 'Italians'.
Yet we know that 5th c. 'Germanic' people described 5th c. 'Britons' as
being, themselves 'Romans' (wealas/Rumwealas/'Welsh') :lol:

Confused? You will be, after this week's episode of: 'SOAP'

Ambrosius/Mike

[Hoplitesmores]

Dionusios of Syrakusae had at 385 B.C. sent the Illyrians 500 Greek "panopliae" (armor?) as aid against the Molosoi. Some people say that this meant 500 Illyrian hoplites but I doubt it.
Kind regards

found it!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Diodorus Siculus Hist.
Bilbiotheca historica (lib. 1-20)
Book 15 chapter 13 section 2 line 4- section 3 line 1

, ™xapšsteilen aÙto‹j summ£couj stratiètaj discil…ouj kaˆ panopl…aj
`Ellhnik¦j pentakos…aj. oÆ’ d' 'Illurioˆ t¦j mÂ

[Hoplitesmores]

Any new data on these guys?
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s130 ... ians-1.jpg
a better version

[Hoplitesmores]

i made this //i151.photobucket.com/albums/s130/olvios300/Illyria/iLLYRIANS-1.jpg:173grlik]http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s130/olvios300/Illyria/iLLYRIANS-1.jpg[/url]

anyone interested
groups.yahoo.com/group/Illyrians/?yguid=232262967

[Paullus Scipio]

There also seem to be significant differences between Northern Illyrian tribes, and their Southern Illyrian cousins, both in culture ( the southerners had a strong greek influence, while the Northerners were referred to by Greek authors as "wild" Illyrians ).

These Illyrians, like the Aetolians, thrived on piracy. Circa 220BC the Southern Illyrians were fairly united under Demetius of Pharos and were an important ally of Macedon....until they fell foul of Rome.

In appearance, they were also somewhat different to their Northern cousins, favouring circular shields, and of course the Greek-style 'Illyrian' helmet, named from the number found there.

[Hoplitesmores]

Those shields were extremely small and big ones are shown in a steele showing heroes or gods.No big shields have been found.They never got to fight as hoplites but their hybrid peltast style was great for mountain and surprise attacks.

[Hoplitesmores]

Actually the Veneti looked like Celts but spoke an independent IE language.They were not Illyrians.

The Veneti according to Polybius who knew them say they spoke a language different than that of the Celts but that in dress and manner they were the same.

[MeinPanzer]

Those shields were extremely small and big ones are shown in a steele showing heroes or gods.No big shields have been found.They never got to fight as hoplites but their hybrid peltast style was great for mountain and surprise attacks.

While a few examples of small shields exist, there are also many for the southern Illyrian tribes showing large shields, too, in non-mythological contexts.

[Hoplitesmores]

Did they find any?Do you have any links to photos from museums with finds from big shields-not just art- or other interesting stuff?I have been scouring the web and books and i don't find enough stuff.

From what i 've read in texts they never fought as hoplites.

[MeinPanzer]

Did they find any?Do you have any links to photos from museums with finds from big shields-not just art- or other interesting stuff?I have been scouring the web and books and i don't find enough stuff.

From what i 've read in texts they never fought as hoplites.

No, none have been found, but the shields represented on some iconographic sources, such as the Gradiste battle plate, are definitely not small. While they don't seem to have worn body armour, they were otherwise equipped very much like hoplites.

[Hoplitesmores]

The Gradiste battle plate is the only one i have seen as well and it has the dragon-snake at the back and a dead weird character.

A hoplite shield couldn't be used from a horseback and since nothing has been found to substantiate anything of the sort.So they mostly were
Javelin throwers with some close combat weapons to boot.