Scutum reconstruction - advice needed

[Caballo]

Tarbicus wrote " Well, it's taken forever to find a decent source of parchment rawhide within the UK for my scutum "

Where did you find it? I tried Cornelissens in London, and the price was just exorbitant....I suspect Royal decree quality!!
Cheers

Brittanicus

[Tarbicus]

Where did you find it?

How do. From Marcus Gear in Walsall. Here's their weblink, but you should send an enquiry as I did. The rawhide wasn't actually listed so I had a shot in the dark and hit the target for a change:
[url:1mmryuht]http://www.marcusgear.co.uk[/url]

[Gaivs Antonivs Satvrninvs]

Ave,Tarbicvs,
Did you try Tandy Leather Co. here in the states?
They have veg-tanned leather hides and all.
I don't know if they would ship overseas but it
may be an option. Or perhaps someone could send it to you.

Maybe too late now but for future reference.

[Tarbicus]

Hi Andy,

Did you try Tandy Leather Co. here in the states?

Yes I did, but as it's an animal product they refused to go through the hassle of the export paperwork unless it's a very big order. The same with any other US based companies.

[Peroni]

Salve,

I have always been able to find what I need at Le Prevo in Newcastle.

http://leprevo.co.uk/index.html

Fast turnaround and really nice people to deal with too.

Regards,

[LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS]

Thanks for the link, Peroni.

They have HOBNAILS, too!!!!

[Tarbicus]

Check out this supplier I found last night as well:
link from old RAT

[Marcus Mummius]

A shop in Belgium also sells parchment rawhide. Their price is 43€/m². Is this a good price?

I've read that the hide/leather used on the front of shields was almost always cowhide. Shield covers (tegimen) were almost always goatskin.

Source: Groenman-van Waateringe, Willy, Römische Lederfunde aus Vindonissa und Valkenburg Z.H. : ein Vergleich. Published in: Jahresbericht Gesellschaft Pro Vindonissa (1974)

@Tarbicus: Will all the emblemparts on you shield be metal or just a few? Will they be heavily decorated like the ones from Kalkriese? Do you know of any metal 'wings' that could have been attached to a shield?

The only metal parts I know of are L-corners, fragments of lightningbolts and tabulae ansatae.

Kind regards,

[Tarbicus]

Jef, thanks for the heads up on the parchment supplier for future reference. I think it's not a bad price, but I don't know if there is too much paperwork for a supplier to export it here for such a small amount, if certain rules apply within the EU. :roll:

Will all the emblemparts on you shield be metal or just a few?

I would actually like them all to be metal, a mix of brass and steel. I know of no metal wings found, but I don't see why it's not feasible. This is more of a question about whether sculptural relief accurately reflects actual relief in reality. Perhaps the metal could also be painted as Travis Clark points out in his musculata research, but I'll need to think that one over more once it's assembled. I intend on painting a Gorgon on the boss, though.

[Marcus Mummius]

I don't think it will be a lot of problem to buy things like rawhide and leather from Belgium. I'm not sure though because the UK has some very strict import rules, concerning live animals at least. The leather shop only sells parchment per hide, no small pieces.

I also plan to make yet another scutum. I also want a layer of linen, a layer of rawhide(such a shield must be so strong! ). I'm thinking of making the tabulae, L-corners and lightning bolts out of sheet brass. The lightningbolts will be tinned or silvered. I think I'll make the wings out of leather and glue them on. If I find a source I'll paint everything using caseïne paint (I'm not going to paint the metal parts).

Will casein paint stick to rawhide?

I don't know yet wheter I'll make a rawhide rim or a brass one.

Kind regards,

[Tarbicus]

because the UK has some very strict import rules, concerning live animals at least.

Exactly, and I do know that without ordering a herd of cow's worth I can't get parchment from the US.

I also plan to make yet another scutum.....If I find a source I'll paint everything using caseïne paint (I'm not going to paint the metal parts).
Will casein paint stick to rawhide?,

As far as I'm aware it won't, or at least not for long. Matt Lukes has done one already which is earlier in the thread and he has some very helpful pointers.

Do remember that hide glue is not waterproof and will soften if it gets wet, so you must wax everything to keep any moisture out.

I've bought a book on working with encaustic paint and wax is how I'm doing it; I think the extra waterproofing will be a big bonus. However, the cassein paint may be better for the metal :roll:

[Matt Lukes]

Not to be a big giant pain in the backside about the whole 'sinew in the glue' issue :lol: but I came across something that might be relevant in a book on making bows*. In the chapter on sinew-backed bows, the section on 'Preparing the Glue' actually reads:

"The glue is made from fine hide shavings that come from the skin when it's scraped prior to being brain-tanned." ... "The glue can also be made from sinew scraps (my underline) that are left over after pounding up the tendons and separating them down to thread size. The hide shavings and sinew scraps can be combined in the same batch of glue..."

This definitely makes me want to know just how dense the sinew found in the glue of the Dura scutua was- is there really enough to suggest it was added purposely to increase strength or was it simply a minor element of the glue itself?

* Hamm, Jim. (1989). Bows & arrows of the native americans: a complete step-by-step guide to wooden bows, sinew-backed bows, composite bows, strings, arrows & quivers. Azle: Lyons & Burford Publishers, Bois d'Arc Press.

[Tarbicus]

Not to be a big giant pain in the backside about the whole 'sinew in the glue' issue :lol: but I came across something that might be relevant in a book on making bows*

hock: feint THUD!!





Eeeeeeeerrrrrrmmmmmmmmmm ........ But, if a lot of sinew was used, it could mean there would be a lot of residue sinew fibre left to make it bounce like a rubber ball :wink: There must have been a substantial enough amount to make it clearly commented on........



I just know I'm wrong.

[Matt Lukes]

Holy CRAP hock: - those are some UGLY babies...

I'd agree that if there's a lot of sinew fibers that it's more likely they were added on purpose- but that's always been the question: just how much is there? I wouldn't assume that just because their presence is mentioned that it means there must have been a lot- I would note anything I observed in a description of an artifact just to be as thorough as possible...

[Marcus Mummius]

Salvete,

I've found another source for hide glue. It's a company located in Germany. They sell a lot of interesting items.

For example: 1kg Hide glue: 7,42€ (how much is needed for a scutum?)

They also sell various 'gluepots' heated containers to prepare your natural glues. They are however not cheap...

Kind regards,