A silly question

[aitor iriarte]

Planning to make a locking scale cuirass and a silly question comes to my mind. When you dress a rigid cuirass, you put your cingulum on it and... what do yu use to keep your tunic in the required length, a second belt, a simple cord?
Are there any references to what Romans did?
Thanks,

Aitor

[Matt Lukes]

Ave Aitor,

A simple cord is what I'd use- I can't recall exactly where I read it, nor do I know on what evidence, if any, it was based on, but it makes sense to me; the balteus/ cingulum seems to have always been worn visibly (whether over armor or with the Tunica, so I can't see why one would be worn under armor- not if it was as symbolic and valuable as is suggested.

Matt

[FlaviusCrispus]

Locking scale, eh? I'd be very interested in your results, since I owned a sizeable piece of this type of armor, now sadly lost in my cross-country move. Here's a picture of my fragment:




It was said to have been found by a metal detectorist in the vicinity of Hadrian's wall.

As far as a tunic goes, we use a simple cloth belt to hitch up the tunic under armor. It lays a little flatter than a rope or chord would and is hence a little more comfortable.

[John M McDermott]

Dear Aitor,

I have given that problem some thought. In one of the Osprey books on Roman military clothing, it showed a soldier with his tunic twisted up in the back and then tied off. I have tried this and it works well. You could also use a fibula.

Also, I notice Roman soldiers persistently shown on steles as having very stylish pleats on the front of their tunics below their armor. I am trying to find a way to do this.

[aitor iriarte]

Many thanks for your help!!
I didn't make clear that my tunic and belt are of the late kind but I think that the problem is pretty much the same for all periods.
Double sets of belt fittings (one simpler, comprising just the buckle and srtap-end) are not uncommon grave-finds during the fourth century. Notwithstanding, I tend to think that the simple belts were intended for the trousers, as the painting on the Silistra (Bulgaria) tomb shows.

Crispus,
What a pity to lose a such an interesting item! Which size were the scales? It will probably a commmon opinion that I'm being anachronistic when planning a locking-scale cuirass with embossed breast-plates for a second half of fourth century impression. I can only bring some scales from Corbridge, dated in the fourth century, in my support...

John,
Does that knot effectively (i.e. more or less evenly at the front and at the back) shorten the length of the tunic? Is it confortable when worn under armour?

Aitor

[John M McDermott]

Yes, it shortens the tunic and you still have a nice pleat in front. It is more comfortable under armor than a belt is.

[Marcus Mummius]

I use a linen belt (narrow strap of linen, folded double and stiched). No problem at all to wear under armour.

[aitor iriarte]

David, Jef,

Must I assume that your cloth belts have not a buckle?

Aitor

[Graham Sumner]

In one of the Osprey books on Roman military clothing, it showed a soldier with his tunic twisted up in the back and then tied off. I have tried this and it works well.

Except that the knot is tied just below the neck and not around the waist as illustrated. A separate belt of some kind is presumably worn but this is generally hidden by the blousing of the tunic. Nomadic tribesmen in Mauritania to this day wear something very similar and tie their tunics in the same way with a knot at the back!

Graham.

[Marcus Mummius]

You are right Aitor, my belt has no buckle, I just tie the ends.

Best regards