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I am looking for images from the Notitia Dignitatum. Although I already have several of the displayed insginia, several having been published lately, I still need more. My library has the ancient editions which I'm not allowed to touch (yet), and my copy of Seeck (1961) only has (bad) B&W drawings. Is there anyone out there who has already scanned or copied most or better, all of the insignia?<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
<br>
Robert Vermaat<br>
Vortigern Studies<br>
www.vortigernstudies.org.uk/<br>
Wansdyke Project 21<br>
www.wansdyke21.org.uk/<br>
Robert's Arthurian Collection<br>
www.geocities.com/vortige...grarth.htm <p></p><i></i>
What is that, Latin? <p><BR><p align=left><font color=gold><font size=2>
_______________________________<BR>
MILES CASCA TARQVINIVS GEMINVS<BR>
<a href=http://www.legio-ix-hispana.org> LEG IX HSPA COH V CEN VIII CON III </font></font><BR>
<font color=gold><font size=2>
VIRES ET VALOR PRO GLORIA ROMAE<BR>
_______________________________</font></font></p><i></i>
Salve,<br>
<br>
Afraid so. The <i> Notitia dignitatum</i> is a notebook of honourable positions, listing the various posts people could hold in the civil administration and the army. It was composed at the start of the fourth century, though its parts seem to reflect different periods, the British part for instance appearing to be quite outdated in some respects while others seem to have been updated after its first version. There are two surviving manuscripts, both medieval copies, that besides the text contain a number of illustrations, including depictions of the shield designs of the various field army troops (though not the frontier troops). Though mixups and identifications may conceivably have affected the reliability of the material, comparison with shield emblems from late Roman sources appear to vindicate the general style and in a few cases even seem to match closely. There are some slight differences between the two available manuscripts and some of these are described and illustrated. in Barker's <i> Armies and enemies of imperial Rome</i> from the Wargames Research Group.<br>
<br>
This site has the (greater part of) the text and a couple of illustrations:<br>
<br>
Bibliotheca Augustana ND page<br>
<br>
Some reading on the shield designs in the ND:<br>
<br>
Grigg, R., 'Inconsistency and lassitude: the shield emblems in the Notitia Dignitatum' in: <i> JRS</i> 73 (1983), 132-142. Argues against reliability of shield designs.<br>
MacDowall, S., <i> Late Roman Infantryman</i> W 9 (London 1994) 64p. Notes matches for V <i> Macedonica</i> with contemporary art.<br>
MacDowall, S., <i> Late Roman Cavalryman</i> W 15 (London 1995) 64p.<br>
MacDowall, S., <i> Adrianople AD 378</i> CA 84 (London 2001) 96p. Colour reproductions of a number of army lists, but not all.<br>
Speidel, M.P., 'The army at Aquileia, the Moesiaci legion and the shield emblems in the Notitia Dignitatum' in: <i> Saalburg Jahrbuch</i> 43 (1990), 68- 72. Also in <i> RAS II</i>. Similarity rather than close match for another legionary shield design.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Sander van Dorst <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showLocalUserPublicProfile?login=sandervandorst>Sander van Dorst</A> at: 3/21/02 3:58:33 pm<br></i>
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Sander, I find it interesting that you would acknowledge that the notitia is a genuine record illustrating the "uniformity" in the Roman army concerning specific shield emblems for specific units, yet you don't think (if we are to believe you comments on the "tunic" thread), that they were not "uniform" enough to have the infrastructure to uniformly clothe their solidiers in the same colour tunics, and some of the Roman references strongly seem to indicate. Dan. <p></p><i></i>
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Hello Sander,<br>
<br>
Thanks for the info about secondary literature. The MAA series I already have, while a recent Drinkwater book has other pictures. Bibliotheca Augustana site indeed has some good ones, including the British Provincial insignia, which they 'must' have from my own site! No harm done, I scanned these from Salway. However, I was looking for more..<br>
<br>
I already knew what the Notitia was, though, and I must say that I disagree with you as to its date. A.H.M. Jones and J.C. Mann agree that it was compiled after the River Frigidus battle, AD 394, and updated for the western part after that. The copies are indeed based on a Carolingian copy.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
<br>
Robert Vermaat<br>
[email protected] <br>
Vortigern Studies<br>
www.vortigernstudies.org.uk/<br>
Wansdyke Project 21<br>
www.wansdyke21.org.uk/<br>
Robert's Arthurian Collection<br>
www.geocities.com/vortige...grarth.htm<br>
<p></p><i></i>
Salve,<br>
<br>
There is a most basic reason for accepting uniformity of shield designs on the one hand, and doubting uniformity of tunic colours on the other. For shield emblems the practice is unambiguously attested in multiple sources (Vegetius, Mauricius, Ammianus) and hinted at in others (Tacitus, representational evidence such as tombstones). Regarding tunic colours on the other hand there is no such unambiguous evidence available. Should you be able to pinpoint exactly the source that attests uniformity, you should, as I remarked before, by all means do so. In my posts I do not ask people to take my word for statements, I provide references to check up on the information that I supply. In my opinion that would be a good standard to adhere to. The article by Fuentes gets credit for me because the author acknowledges that his reconstruction of the possible uniformity is a theory which does not exclude other options because of the nature of the available source material which allows no certainty.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Sander van Dorst <p></p><i></i>
Oops, my mistake, end of the fourth century indeed. The info on the ND was for others who may not be aware of it.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Sander van Dorst <p></p><i></i>
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Hi Sander,<br>
<br>
Oh, right, I did not think of that. So, if you come across someone who has done this before me, please notify me. In any case, I'll notify this board when my own site is ready.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
<br>
Robert Vermaat<br>
[email protected] <br>
<br>
Vortigern Studies<br>
www.vortigernstudies.org.uk/<br>
Wansdyke Project 21<br>
www.wansdyke21.org.uk/<br>
Robert's Arthurian Collection<br>
www.geocities.com/vortige...grarth.htm<br>
<p></p><i></i>
You can get a copy of the film roll of the illustrations and shield patterns of the Oxford copy of the Notitia from the Bodleian library.<br>
<br>
My copy cost (IIRC) 40.00 UKP and the service was very good indeed.<br>
<br>
I think their web site is www.bodley.ox.ac.uk and I ordered via email.<br>
<br>
I know of people from the US who have also ordered and found their service just as good overseas. <p></p><i></i>
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Hi Nik,<br>
<br>
Thanks for the info. I checked the Bodleian site, but maybe if you could contact me off-site and tell me how to proceed..<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Robert Vermaat<br>
[email protected] <p></p><i></i>
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