Really true, organic black dye

[richsc]

I understand the Romans had trouble doing a real black color. How about this?

I was in Santa Fe this morning at the Governor's square. A Jemez pueblo woman was selling the usual orange clay pots (sorry, it's packed or I'd give a photo) hand painted with white, reds, and black. She had the white and red pigments in her tray, but no black. I asked where she got it. "Wild spinach boiled down. The longer you boil it the blacker it gets. It is the iron in the plant. It is what we've always used."

Now, I haven't heard this before. I'll try it as soon as I can find a batch. It is a north American plant, but plants rich in iron must be in Europe too.

Thoughts?

[Martin Moser]

That's interesting information! Looking forward to hear what experiences you'll have with it. I'll check with the Liber Illuministarum and the Plictho (both 15th cent) to see if they have anything on the subject.

[Dan Howard]

What exactly is "wild spinach"? The term is used in different regions to describe different plants. In any case, all dark green leafy vegetables contain iron but proper spinach (Spinacia oleracea) has the highest iron content so would probably be better than wild spinach for making dye. However, other plants contain more iron such as lentils and soybeans so they might produce an even better dye than boiled spinach. It would be worth some experimentation.

[richsc]

I was looking up 'wild spinach" and came up with a number of different looking plants. The one she would use is in New Mexico at 5000 ft elevations and above, and I'm not sure the exact one grows at near sea level near me, much less grow in Europe. I'll look.

But if it works out, then as you say any plant rich in iron could do the trick,

I would suggest that anyone who left boiling plants on for too long would notice the dark liquid and how it stained.

[Crispianus]

Its probably not just the iron thats important but likely a combination of several things naturally occurring in the plant and possibly the water... ie Tannic acid + iron...
Oak galls and iron produces black ink.....

http://endless-swarm.com/?p=834

So now I'm wondering if this is what was used to write on the Vindolanda tablets....

[Crispvs]

As a method, it is probably not dissimilar to the Vinagroon recipe later used to dye leather black, which basically consisted of rusty iron dissolved in white vinegar which then reacted with the tannins naturally present in the leather.

Crispvs

[Dan D'Silva]

Come to that, there were Medieval/Renaissance fabric dyes which were a lot like vinegaroon -- powdered iron sulfate mixed with oak tannins. There's even a similar stiffening/drying effect noted.

http://elizabethancostume.net/dyes/lytel...black.html

[Alanus]

Hi, Richard

What color is Popeye's stomach lining? :woot:

[richsc]

Funny you should ask. Over on FB "Experimental Archaeology" this is going great guns. Someone just mentioned seaweed as a colorant, which as it is almost inky black may have more iron than spinach. Maybe Popeye actually ate seaweed instead.

[Dan Howard]

Popeye was created to encourage kids to eat spinach but it was never because of its iron content. Doctors wanted kids to get more vitamin A, which encourages muscle development. Popeye was "strong to the finish" because of the vitamin A in spinach, not iron.

Most of the iron in spinach isn't digestable anyway because of its high oxylate content. Oxylate bonds with the iron in spinach to form ferrous oxylate which locks up the iron and makes it unavailable. Plus, oxylate depletes the body of iron that is already present. Spinach might make a good dye because of its iron content but it isn't a good source of iron for humans.