03-12-2014, 05:11 PM
Is there any info as to whether or not the "Chunni" of Ptolemy were still existent at the time of the Hunnic Invasions in 376? AFAIK they were wiped out in the 2nd century, or early 3rd. It is interesting. I think the first Huns were Vurugnds.
The Alpilcur Huns (The correct name of your Alipzur or Alcidzur Huns) were a conglomeration of Hunnic peoples, who along with the Tongurs, lived on the Don and the Volga intermingled with the Alans, and seem to have had a relationship with the Sarmatian Boisci (Rhobasci) and Itimari.
What I am saying in regard to the serfs is the same as yours: they were rather disorganized peoples and did not have the power to challenge Alan leadership. Essentially making them serf-class.
As for Kim's suggestion that the Chunni were Turks, if this is the Kim I am thinking of I will warn you that his work is HEAVILY influenced by Ex-Soviet Pseudoscience and Pseudohistory. There was a cut-off of learning that led to the former Soviets being stuck with the Xiongnu concept for like 60 years.
The Chuvash Language is part of the Lir-Turkic group, which is thought to include Hunnic, and known to include Bulgar, Avar, Magyar, and Khazar. Hepthaltite was Gok-Turk or Al-Turk, not sure which.
There were indeed "Four Groups of Huns" as is later recorded by Central Asian Sources - but it is generally accepted that these four groups are only distinguished after they had risen to prominence and collapsed. The White Huns were the Hepthaltites, Black Huns the Attilanic Huns, and the Red Huns and Yellow Huns I do not know.
Uldin's name appears to have been Ultzin, hence why I correlate him with the Ultinzur Huns. He was supposedly succeeded by Donatus, but there isn't any evidence for that and he may have merely been an interem ruler. It is, however, known that Ultzin, who likely only led his tribe again, possibly the "Ultinzurs" ), was the same tribe as Charaton (Qaraton, although I do not know the Etymology). The evidence is that Aetius was still in the court of Charaton, meaning that Charaton had to be from the same group of Huns as Uldin. Otherwise he would have been sent back.
It seems Charaton attempted to unite more Huns under his rule. He was also the first one to move the Huns into the Carpathain and Pannonian Basins - in the time of Ultzin Hunnic power extended no further than the Dniester, or maybe the Wallachian Plain.
As for the Xiongnu connection, there isn't any evidence the Xiognu explicitly developed that system of political organization - it is more likely that some Altaic group developed the organization and the Xiongnu borrowed it.
Prior to Uldin, Charaton, Rua, and Octar, the evidence suggests the Huns had a prestige system: lots of kings in each group (e.g. the Alpilcurs) and the most prestigious was the defacto leader (for example, the Al-ik of the Akatir, also recorded by Priscus who describes the Akatir ranking system).
The Alpilcur Huns (The correct name of your Alipzur or Alcidzur Huns) were a conglomeration of Hunnic peoples, who along with the Tongurs, lived on the Don and the Volga intermingled with the Alans, and seem to have had a relationship with the Sarmatian Boisci (Rhobasci) and Itimari.
What I am saying in regard to the serfs is the same as yours: they were rather disorganized peoples and did not have the power to challenge Alan leadership. Essentially making them serf-class.
As for Kim's suggestion that the Chunni were Turks, if this is the Kim I am thinking of I will warn you that his work is HEAVILY influenced by Ex-Soviet Pseudoscience and Pseudohistory. There was a cut-off of learning that led to the former Soviets being stuck with the Xiongnu concept for like 60 years.
The Chuvash Language is part of the Lir-Turkic group, which is thought to include Hunnic, and known to include Bulgar, Avar, Magyar, and Khazar. Hepthaltite was Gok-Turk or Al-Turk, not sure which.
There were indeed "Four Groups of Huns" as is later recorded by Central Asian Sources - but it is generally accepted that these four groups are only distinguished after they had risen to prominence and collapsed. The White Huns were the Hepthaltites, Black Huns the Attilanic Huns, and the Red Huns and Yellow Huns I do not know.
Uldin's name appears to have been Ultzin, hence why I correlate him with the Ultinzur Huns. He was supposedly succeeded by Donatus, but there isn't any evidence for that and he may have merely been an interem ruler. It is, however, known that Ultzin, who likely only led his tribe again, possibly the "Ultinzurs" ), was the same tribe as Charaton (Qaraton, although I do not know the Etymology). The evidence is that Aetius was still in the court of Charaton, meaning that Charaton had to be from the same group of Huns as Uldin. Otherwise he would have been sent back.
It seems Charaton attempted to unite more Huns under his rule. He was also the first one to move the Huns into the Carpathain and Pannonian Basins - in the time of Ultzin Hunnic power extended no further than the Dniester, or maybe the Wallachian Plain.
As for the Xiongnu connection, there isn't any evidence the Xiognu explicitly developed that system of political organization - it is more likely that some Altaic group developed the organization and the Xiongnu borrowed it.
Prior to Uldin, Charaton, Rua, and Octar, the evidence suggests the Huns had a prestige system: lots of kings in each group (e.g. the Alpilcurs) and the most prestigious was the defacto leader (for example, the Al-ik of the Akatir, also recorded by Priscus who describes the Akatir ranking system).
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