Ancient Warships...Roman/Greek/Carthaginian...?

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Interesting article on FB.

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2...040413.php

[Flavivs Aetivs]

Awesome, I did a ton of research into Roman Warships making my RTW mod (I figured out how to make Naval Battles Playable), and this is really interesting to me.

For some reason, the image they show of the 2 rams reminds me of the later Byzantine Dromonds, which had the 2 poles protruding from it.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Were the 2 'pole' not the greek-fire dispensers?

[Flavivs Aetivs]

They were rams, only a handful of dromons ever had Siphons on them for Greek Fire. I think they actually found one in the Black Sea, but I don't know.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Lets see a picture then.

I have no doubt the mechanics of ramming did not change a great deal, once the double ram advantages were discovered ( by Corinth or one of the city states in opposition to Athens, IIRC)

[Flavivs Aetivs]

Just Google Dromon. They evolved from old Roman Liburnae, as anything larger than a monoreme or Bireme had died out in the 2nd-3rd century.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Hmmm, they do not really look substantial enough to act in the same manner as the bronze rams.
Weird. I wonder how accurate the reconstructions are.

[Flavivs Aetivs]

They smashed the Vandal Fleet to pieces (that's what they were made for - the Roman fleet was very poor in the 6th century) so they must have been more effective than traditional Galleys.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

i believe they may have disabled them by smashing the oars, as in the Rus fleet.

[Nathan Ross]

anything larger than a monoreme or Bireme had died out in the 2nd-3rd century.

Triremes were still in use in AD323, when Licinius' admiral used several hundred of them against Constantine's fleet in the battle of the Hellespont. Constantine (or his son Crispus) defeated them using lighter vessels called 'triaconters', but the term is quite obscure. Possibly this '30 oared' ship might have been the ancestor of the later dromon?

[Flavivs Aetivs]

That term actually sounds more like one of the larger river patrol boats dug up on the rhine.

Roman Liburnae is what it's most often interpreted to be, and we know the Dromon evolved from the Liburnians of that era.

[Flavivs Aetivs]

anything larger than a monoreme or Bireme had died out in the 2nd-3rd century.

Triremes were still in use in AD323, when Licinius' admiral used several hundred of them against Constantine's fleet in the battle of the Hellespont. Constantine (or his son Crispus) defeated them using lighter vessels called 'triaconters', but the term is quite obscure. Possibly this '30 oared' ship might have been the ancestor of the later dromon?

If I may bring this thread up again...

I did some research online, and it looks like that the "Triaconter" which was a late Roman Liburnian Monoreme (It couldn't have been a trireme, too small in comparison to a Licinian ship), was very similar to the later Dromons used by Belisarius. By this point we know the Romans were using Lateen sails, especially on their galley fleet, and evidence from the Vergillian manuscripts points to the use of Above-Water spurs instead of Rams in the 4th century.

Therefore, the only real difference between these Liburnian-type warships and Dromons was the adoption of a Full Deck, the rudder configuration, forecastle/siphon, and of course the Dromon was larger.